The Future of Experiential Hospitality in Asia | Beverly Chen, Cloud Collective | EP10

Justin (: 00:33

Hospitality has traditionally been about building destinations, bigger hotels, more amenities, more experiences. But what if the starting point wasn't the hotel at all? What if every project began with a much simpler question? What belongs here? My guest today is Beverly Chen, co-founder and COO of Cloud Collective, a hospitality company taking a fundamentally different approach to development across Asia.

Rather than creating brands that can be replicated from one destination to the next, Cloud Collective builds hospitality experiences that emerge from the places themselves.

From Kao Yai Art Forest, where guests will soon be able to stay within a living art institution, to Roam an adventure-led hospitality brand rooted in landscape and exploration.

And Kaya, a collection of luxury tentant resorts inspired by the philosophy of Zhao Ban, every project begins with the same belief that great hospitality should belong to its surroundings.

Today we're exploring placemaking, sustainability, belonging, and why the future of hospitality may have less to do with building hotels and more to do with creating places that leave people changed.

Justin (: 01:42

Beverly, welcome to the Curious Concierge. Thanks so much for being here with me today.

Beverly (: 01:46

Thank you so much for for having me. I'm so excited by what you're doing and and it's great to have dialogue around a lot of these really exciting topics in the industry.

Justin (: 01:55

Absolutely. Well, I'm excited to have you here and to learn more about what you guys do at Cloud Collective. Now, before we dive into the brands themselves, I'd love to understand

Beverly (: 02:05

Yeah.

Justin (: 02:06

the people behind them. You know, looking through

your background, you started your career in hospitality, explored other

industries, and eventually found your way back. What was it about hospitality that kept pulling you back?

Beverly (: 02:20

Hospitality for me was always very much so the dream

and something that always has sat very close to my heart. I think, you know, when I when I really dig into it, it's this idea that it's a very unique industry in that it is the most physical manifestation of your ideas and your hard work and your efforts and those of the people that you're collaborating with. And so that's something that I've always found incredibly rewarding.

I think very early on in my career, I was lucky enough to have a really wonderful mentor who also taught me to be open-minded and keep doors open. And you'll see that I've had a very nonlinear career or a non-conventional career as a result. But I think what that's allowed me to do is really come to the table in a very well-rounded way, taking lessons that I've learned from different industries and applying it back to whatever it is that I'm working on. So hospitality is very much so.

So a full circle moment for me, and it means so much to me that this is what I'm now doing in the form of Cloud

Collective.

Justin (: 03:21

That's great. And how has that influenced the way you think about building hospitality brands today? You know, you worked across different

types of verticals and digital businesses too.

Beverly (: 03:28

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 03:31

has that impacted the way you build brands?

Beverly (: 03:34

I spent a huge chunk of my career actually in the tech industry working for working for tech startups. And in tech, everything is very much so about scale and how fast you can grow. And I think when we look at hospitality, while that is certainly something that is important and that you want to consider from a commercial perspective, the question is: how are you able to do so in a very intentional way? How do you do so in a way that you can successfully scale?

while really maintaining the essence of what it is that you're trying to create.

Justin (: 04:04

Right. And so why don't we just jump right into it? When did the idea for Cloud Collective

Beverly (: 04:08

Sure.

Justin (: 04:11

first emerge? And why don't you tell our audience a little bit more about what you guys do?

Beverly (: 04:16

So Cloud Collective, in a nutshell, we design, develop, and operate outdoor resorts and hotels under our portfolio of, we call them experiential brands. And that's the type of brand that we've always sought to create. It's not just me, Cloud Collective was founded by three co-founders.

Who unfortunately aren't here today, but are a huge part of the inception and why we started it in the first place. So the idea of it came about, I think, quite a few years ago, and it's something that the three of us came together on because we each had this kind of kicking around in the back of our minds for many years, and during COVID, which I think was a big time for a lot of people to re-evaluate and reflect on what they wanted to put out in the world, what they wanted to spend their

energy and their time on, it really felt like the right time.

And so Cloud Collective as a company was formed off the back of the idea that we we weren't seeking to create a hotel company per se. You know, when we started, I didn't even know what an HMA stood for. As embarrassing as that is, and luckily my my co-founders and and the wonderful people in our team did. But you know, we we sought to create, most importantly, a way of life and a type of travel that we believed in and we felt very deeply would resonate with modern travelers.

Justin (: 05:33

I love that. A true collective uniting and building something super special.

Beverly (: 05:35

Yes. Yes.

It's very much so in our namesake. The reason why we're called Cloud Collective is fundamentally this belief in bringing together the best of breed and the best in the business, you know, the best designers, the best hoteliers, everybody that is united behind the same philosophy and the same vision and the same ethos.

Justin (: 05:57

I love that. And so as you guys were getting together during COVID times, what problem did you feel like wasn't being solved by traditional hospitality companies that you guys wanted to disrupt the space with?

Beverly (: 06:10

I think it's twofold. On one side of the coin you have

The demands of the modern traveler, we were really seeing a discernible shift in behavior and what people were looking for from travel and what they were wanting to spend on. And it was experiential travel. And I know that that term gets thrown around quite a lot. What does it really mean? I think it's this idea that it's travel that stays with you, and that is beyond just the physical or the hardware. There's much more emphasis on the software.

And there were a lot of are and are today a lot of obstacles for existing hospitality brands, especially the big guys, to come into the space and know how to tackle that, whether that is very mechanical challenges like how to construct in more remote locations or nature-based locations, or whether that is understanding how to create concepts and brands that are going to speak to what people are looking for today. So that's on one side.

On the other side, we had this crazy idea to integrate the way that hospitality projects are mounted. So you have your designers, you have your developer, you typically have your operator and your brands, and you have your owners.

And with that comes a lot of challenges, a lot of complexity, whether that is cost, whether that is just dealing with simply a really high volume of stakeholders, whether that is the fact that everybody has a different agenda. You know, designers, while what they create is very beautiful, may not be functional. A developer may not think about operations because they're not the ones that are going to be operating the project once they hand the keys over, right? So we had this idea of putting that all together.

Collective spans the entire life cycle of a hospitality project from the first idea on the notepad to when a guest walks through the door and beyond that. And that's really what we sought to address on the second side of things.

Justin (: 07:58

Yeah. And I think that's something a lot of people forget in the hospitality space. There needs to be a through line from the moment someone interacts with your brand, whether it's through AI nowadays, online,

all the way to being, you know, physically there. And sometimes there is that disparity or that difference when you

start interacting when physically.

And I when

you start losing the customer and the whole experience starts to fall. So that's

exciting that you guys are really putting that forward and thinking through the entire narrative and from you know, from the story, branding, all the way to the operations and checkout.

we've seen, a huge shift over the last few years towards outdoor hospitality, experiential.

Travel and nature-led escapes, as you mentioned. And so on the surface, it might look like a trend, but I suspect it's something much deeper. Why do

Beverly (: 08:53

Mm.

Justin (: 08:54

you think outdoor hospitality is resonating so strongly in Asia right now?

Beverly (: 08:59

To be honest, I don't necessarily think it's Asia. It's something that we're seeing pretty much across the board in a lot of regions, very much so led by the West and is now making its way over here. And what's really interesting is that millennials and the generation that's following, they're they're spending their way outside. So, you know, they're spending less on luxury goods and services and much more on this idea of.

Of wanting to get back into nature. So what they want to pay for is access, not excess in a way. And that's the biggest shift that we've that we've seen.

Justin (: 09:35

Right. And so you guys have built something in that in that world already at the

Beverly (: 09:40

Yes.

Justin (: 09:40

Kao Yai Art Forest.

I would love to hear a little bit more about what that project is. How did that project first come about and what exactly is Kao Yai Art Forest?

Beverly (: 09:51

So, Kao Yai Art Forest is a pioneering art institution. As much as I would love to take credit for it, all credit is due to our partner, Marissa Chiravanant. She is the founder of Kao Yai Art Forest. A lot of the vision has also come from her, and it's really challenging the idea of fundamentally what art means to people. And you don't necessarily have to be an art lover, but what's really interesting is this paradox.

Paradigm shift of art as an object to be consumed, similarly to status symbols or luxury goods that are purchased, versus art as experience. And within the context of Kao Yai Art Forest, you know, it's essentially an open-air, you can call it a museum or a sculptural park or whatever it may be, but it's integrated into nature on an old tapioca plantation.

You go there and all of the pieces are in the forest. So we had the, you know, massive, the big mammom by Louise Bourgeois sitting in the middle of the fields in Kao Yay. And that is truly something that you will never see in a museum kind of a context. So it was all about this vision of art as a living dialogue and creating that dialogue between.

the what would traditionally be a spectator and the art piece.

Justin (: 11:11

Right. And it's rare to find areas in the world where you can live on art land or museum land, right? I think Naoshima Island in Japan is a good example. but what made you decide that accommodation should become part of that experience rather than simply creating or simply having as it is a destination where people visit for the day?

Beverly (: 11:34

Yeah, I think what you mentioned very much so rings true is there are very few

museums or even hotels that are connected to museums. The Benesse House is probably the closest comparison that you have. And even then it's offering accommodation on alongside the art. I think what we really wanted to challenge here is that the accommodation is a layer. It is still part of you being immersed inside this art world.

Let's say. So, with the intention of creating and allowing you to experience the art forest along a 24-hour arc. Because the art and the art forest is different at dawn, it's different when it rains, it's different in the moonlight. And so this allows you to actually live inside a museum, so to speak.

Justin (: 12:20

Yeah. that is obviously the whole special magic that you guys are creating. how do you actually design an experience that leaves someone changed rather than simply rested?

Beverly (: 12:30

It's all very intentional and I would love to be able to point to, you know, one or two big things, but to be honest and the way that we see brand building, I always say that brand building is really world building. It's almost like

The Sims. If you can, if you can the the analogy is dating me a little bit, but it it's about all of those different elements from the color of the sky to what people are wearing to the finishing of the doorknobs. And so, you know, building a brand is all of those touch points that guests can see, but also that they can feel. And so everything is very, very intentional. For example, the entrance to the art forest currently.

You know, it was intentionally designed to be a tunnel.

Where you sort of enter from the outside world, you walk through this very dark tunnel, and then you come out the other side, and there is the art forest. It's also designed to shift your energy. So you walk through this, and then the person that greets you greets you and has a certain energy level, you know. And so that also plays into operational details like how we hire the type of team that we

will have there that will be an extension of the art.

Justin (: 13:40

Right. those are special elements that are going to be very unique to not only the property itself, but the space and the brand that you're building. And I think another project that really caught my attention that kind of sits almost opposite ends of the spectrum here. Kao Yai feels more how would I put it? Reflective and contemplative, but Roam

Beverly (: 14:00

Right.

Justin (: 14:01

feels more active, adventurous, constantly moving.

Beverly (: 14:06

Right.

Justin (: 14:06

both seem to come from the same philosophy.

Beverly (: 14:10

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 14:10

what inspired Roam?

Beverly (: 14:12

Roam is a really interesting one because as you mentioned, it is quite a departure from Kao Yai Art Forest or Kaya and other brands that we've worked on. the inception of Roam came about because we saw that, you know, wellness and the way that people were experiencing wellness was really evolving, and we saw that in ourselves as well. But we also noticed that with this shift, there wasn't really anybody that was catering.

To that and the future of what that side of the industry was going to look like. Because often you have adventure maybe without comfort, or you have comfort, but maybe without adventure. And no one was really bringing that together. So Roam is really, you know, we call it an active adventure and wellness brand. And that that really encapsulates what it's about. It's about

Active souls that find meaning in movement and meaning in challenge and everybody kind of coming together, but then also balanced by the wellness side of things where it's focused on recovery, it's focused on honest food that's delicious but with really beautiful ingredients, it's focused on getting people together shoulder to shoulder. And ultimately, as the brand manifesto says, Roam is about return.

It's about returning to yourself. I think that is a part of the story that was very intentional on my side because a lot of the language that we use around or the intention of building a brand, we want people to escape. And the intention behind Roam was actually the opposite. We wanted you to come back to yourself. And there's nothing that will meet bring you back to yourself more than.

something that is a physical challenge and more than getting out there in the wild, you know, shoulder to shoulder with somebody else, climbing that mountain or, you know, surfing at dawn or, you know, skiing, whatever it may be, right?

Justin (: 16:02

Right, right. And it's interesting because wellness perhaps is is an overused term nowadays, but wellness in the hospitality space seems to be yoga and saunas and cold plunges.

But now we're introducing adventure.

And adventure, I would say obviously as part of the sports and recovery, you know, wellness

umbrella, I suppose.

But in

your case, do you think adventure is becoming a form of well-being? And

Beverly (: 16:33

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 16:33

do you think the wellness traveler is evolving into expecting something more than just a relaxing and restful experience?

Beverly (: 16:42

I think what's really beautiful about travelers and us as human beings is that we are always evolving. And while that poses a challenge for anybody in the industry, I find it a really fun challenge. So, wellness, as you mentioned, started off based on the idea of relaxing. It was very kind of pampering wellness. It was go to the spa, lie down, have a massage or a facial. You know, it was that kind of very prescriptive wellness, or it was wellness in the

Form of go to a wellness retreat and have, you know, a detox, and you can eat this, but you can't eat that, and you must do this, and this is the schedule. Our take on wellness at Cloud Collective is that wellness should feel good. And it's exactly what you mentioned, which is that it's not necessarily wellness, but well-being.

And so whether that's in the type of FB concept that we have in Roam or in any spaces that we create, whether that's in really challenging what wellness means today, you know, we've seen the rise of social wellness clubs, and that's something that has absolutely exploded in the last few years, and it's still relatively a new idea in a lot of parts of Asia. But it's this idea that people wanted more than just being able to socialize around alcohol and food.

wanted to be able to socialize doing something that made them feel good and that was good for their health as well. So I think wellness has really pivoted in the direction of longevity and biohacking and that's where you get the whole ice baths, cold plunge, you know, contrast therapy.

I think if you were to ask anybody 10 years ago, have you done an ice bath? Nine times out of 10 people would say no. I think if you were to ask today, probably nine times out of 10, most people will have done an ice bath or a cold plunge or a sauna or something, something or other. And I think the way that that is now shifting is moving more into the physical performance space almost. And you see that reflected in the capital as well. I read recently.

That

L. Catterton, the private equity firm by LVMH, they've they've they're in talks to acquire Hyrox for example, at a close to $1 billion valuation. And this is this is a brand that came out of nowhere, doesn't have any hardware, you know, doesn't have any big infrastructure, and has taken the world by storm. And it's something that everybody is very much so buying into now.

And to me, that's the biggest example of social and cultural currency shifting from things you can touch and feel to experiences and physical experiences, especially.

Justin (: 19:13

Right. Totally agree. And it is interesting because Hyrox is a good example of bringing this physicality with this shared mindset of putting yourself through a really rigorous activity, you know, like a marathon. It's a shared

Beverly (: 19:27

Mm.

Justin (: 19:27

experience of no pain, no growth sort of mentality. And

Beverly (: 19:31

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 19:32

you're right, I think there's a lot of more social elements that we're seeing.

as people now look towards different things outside of your alcohol or your typical ways to relax. And so

Beverly (: 19:42

Right. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 19:45

as we talk about the socialness of it all, how does community play a role within Roam?

Beverly (: 19:51

I think what's really interesting is that community like sustainability has become a term that everybody likes to throw around. I think I've seen very few brands actually do it very intentionally. Oftentimes it's more of a marketing tool and it's just something that you say.

But building that in very intentionally to your plan is something different. So community for Roam is at the crux of the brand. It is one of the four brand pillars. And for us, it's not a marketing tool, it's the demand engine behind Roam. Because we understand and want Roam to be built by the people that it's for.

And so very early on, even at this stage, even when we are very early, we're trying to bring in the adventurers and the creators and you know, really, really fantastic people in the industry that have created successful outdoor brands in their own right and bring them to the table and and have them contribute to and influence and shape what Roam is going to going to become. And I think

What is even more exciting about community within the context of Roam is that in the active community or in the very physical community, it is probably one of the communities that have a very strong sense of

belonging and support and people coming together than anything I've ever seen. I I went for a run in the park this morning, for example, and I, you know, there are people giving me thumbs up and you know, people that you don't know. and I think that's one of the most beautiful things about the adventure and the active community and something that we really want to

provide

a platform for at Roam. So we don't call our guests guests, we'll call them members. Everybody is a member of this community and we want you to be able to come to Roam Bali and experience that and meet people and you know make connections and then potentially see that same person at Roam Hokkaido or Roam and Margaret River, for example. And so the mechanics of that will boil down to how we design the spaces

you know, how we encourage people to interact, because you can design a hotel in a way that encourages isolation, if that's your intention, or you can design a hotel in a way that encourages people coming together. yeah.

Justin (: 22:06

Right. And it's interesting because not only are you creating a new space, I suppose, where you're calling everyone members, you're creating an adventure-led wellness brand to really find these active souls. but

Beverly (: 22:20

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 22:20

what I find interesting too is that you're not just building a regular space, a regular hotel. This is actually a camp that you're bringing to

Beverly (: 22:27

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 22:29

life. And the first one sounds like it's gonna be in Bali.

Beverly (: 22:32

Mm.

Justin (: 22:32

How

are you envisioning to build a camp that feels different than a typical hotel stay? And why specifically a camp instead of, you know, a an actual large hotel property?

Beverly (: 22:44

I think you know, for Roam Bali, and the reason why we chose that location also to be sort of the flagship and the first location is that Bali is one of those rare places to me that while it's become iconic and very mass, you could say, it's also been able to maintain its culture and really keep that intact.

And so that was very intentional. It's also one of those places where you can have a lot of different types of experiences. But for Bali specifically, we're going to be creating actually a Roam retreat. And, you know, all of the all of the Roam properties will be somewhat intimate in scale. And that's just across all of the projects that we do at Cloud Collective. And that's part of our also our sustainability ethos. You can't really say you're treading lightly on the land and then put a 200-key hotel somewhere, right?

So Roam very much so follows in that direction.

Justin (: 23:37

I love that. we just talked about sustainability. How does that come into play here specifically at Roam Camp?

Beverly (: 23:44

Sustainability

is something that is to us built into the everyday. I think you're gonna notice that it's not something, whether it's the way our portfolio brands are positioned or the way that Cloud Collective is positioned, it's certainly something that we talk about, but it's not something that we really put in your face. And the reason for that is because we have this belief that sustainability shouldn't be something that you say, it should be something that you do. And it's something that

Travelers today will notice, investors and owners today will notice because audiences are very sophisticated, travelers are very discerning, and to me it's more about the actual meaning of sustainability rather than what I can put on a pamphlet.

And so that's integrated to everything that we do, whether it's our design approach, you know, from an interior design perspective, it's really working with and showcasing and heroing artists and creators and designers that have a deep understanding of the place that we're building in from a development perspective. It's not overbuilding, it's not over-designing. So you will not see lobbies in any of our spaces across any of our brands. And that was a very intentional.

Choice. It was an intentional choice from a commercial and sustainability perspective. And from the commercial side, it's about how do you make your square meter work for you, right? But also very much so from the guest perspective, which is that we bring this spirit of residential hospitality to everything that we do. And that is very much so a you know cloud collective cornerstone.

Justin (: 25:16

Yeah, I love that. And there's so many things that we can talk about sustainability, but I just wanted to bring it back because you're

Beverly (: 25:21

We could.

Justin (: 25:24

also building another brand, right? We've just talked about two other very different brands, and yet they

Beverly (: 25:30

Yeah.

Justin (: 25:30

both feel unmistakably cloud collective. You're

Beverly (: 25:34

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 25:34

also now building a brand called Kaya, which

Beverly (: 25:37

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 25:38

talking about sustainability, it's

more of a tented resort,

let's talk a little bit about that. What's the philosophy behind that brand? And you know, these three brands are so incredibly different. What's the common

Beverly (: 25:49

Mm.

Justin (: 25:49

thread that connects them?

Beverly (: 25:51

I think it's a sense of story and soul.

As as we've touched on today, everything that we do about Cloud Collective from the reason we started the company was was an answer to the hospitality landscape as we saw it today, which was a lot of sameness, a lot of very cookie-cutter, you know, a lot of, and I'm sure you've also seen plenty of brand decks come across your desk, but and everyone sort of is aspiring to do the same thing, but I think very few people have.

Have done that successfully. And the reason for that is because a brand isn't what you see on a piece of paper or in a deck. a brand is very much so how you bring that vision and that concept to life, and it's really, really difficult across the life cycle of a hospitality project because you have the team that created the brand, and then oftentimes, you know, as we were mentioning before, you have your developer, your designer, your operator, not everybody is aligned.

And along the way, things happen in a project because budgets need to be met, timelines need to be met, operations might flag this as: okay, it's you know, it fits the brand, but operationally it's not the most functional or efficient. And the way that we approach that at Cloud Collective is.

As a brand person, I sit in every single meeting. Every single meeting. I sit in every design meeting. Anything that has to do with the brand, I will sit in. And we say within our within the team that brand, your brand is your North Star. And it's something that whether you are the architect, the master planner, the landscape designer, whether you are the construction manager,

Everybody has a clear understanding of what it is that we're creating and what it is that we're building, and that's very important to us and how we've been able to retain that through to execution.

Justin (: 27:30

Right.

Beverly (: 27:30

On Pius specifically, you

know, we were very lucky and excited to work with Bound and Beyond, which is the they own the Four Seasons and the Capella here in Bangkok, you know.

Part of the world's 50 best hotels. And that was a really exciting venture for us to embark on together. And they had this ambition to move into what they saw as this really exciting growing space, which is outdoor hospitality and creating an experiential brand. And so that's what we set out to do together. And we really conceptualized Kaya to be.

You know, Kaya is different to the other brands in that it is community driven, but it's it's very it has a liveliness to it. You know, it's not a place that you go and everything is quiet, it's not really the amon kind of vibe. It's you go you can enjoy, you know, a margarita, but it's gonna be a margarita with you know locally sourced mint and a mint grown on the farm at Kaya, and it's gonna be very high quality, and it's gonna be the most delicious mojito you've ever

Had. It's going to be clean and not make you feel bad the next day. And sustainability was also something that we very much pulled into that. Wellness was something that we very much pulled into that because it was inspired by the location. Not many people know this. Ko Pha Ngan is has a reputation for a bit of a party island because of the full moon party. But it truly is this sort of slightly off-the-beaten track and very

up and coming destination. And we're really excited to be a a part of that.

Justin (: 28:59

I love that. And it's five o'clock somewhere. I need that margarita.

Beverly (: 29:02

It is five it

is five o'clock. Hey, it's it's wellness as well. It's well being. It's well being as well.

Justin (: 29:09

You got to take care of yourself.

you touched on something really special here is that many hospitality brands, you know, scale through replication. You're talking about four seasons, capella, but cloud collective has taken almost the opposite approach and building different worlds. Why is that?

Beverly (: 29:25

Mm-hmm.

We I mean, I think it it would be impossible to say that we haven't designed our brands to scale because we have. I think we've just done it in a way where we're able to retain that sense of place and that sense of identity on a property level.

Because

otherwise we wouldn't be cloud collective, right? So, so sort of along this mission of being a company that is bringing story and soul back into hospitality and back into the way that guests experience hospitality, one of the biggest obstacles and challenges that we had when we started the company was how do we do that? A,

Commercially speaking, where we can create these really sexy resorts and brands, but that would have really fantastic returns. And how do we do this in a way where we set the infrastructure and we can expand and we can grow, right? Because we didn't start these brands to be a brand of one. We started these brands with the intention of being able to grow this and share this with the world in in different locations.

So whether that is being smart in how we create our playbooks, whether it's operational playbooks, design playbooks, developmental playbooks, whether it's being smart in how we use templates, there's a lot that goes on that is not so sexy behind the scenes that a guest never really sees, but that they will experience in the end product.

and that was all about being able to answer answer that question of how do you grow and how do you be commercially very compelling. but to the guest, you're still delivering something that is very intimate, it's very full of character, it's very full of the place that it's set in.

Justin (: 31:01

Right. And I think that's the magic behind Cloud Collective, right? But as you mentioned it has to be commercially accepted, ready

Beverly (: 31:08

Mm.

Justin (: 31:09

for the world to really experience what you guys are building. there's also a sense of place and locality to each of these properties that you guys are building. How do you balance

Beverly (: 31:19

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 31:20

the commercial realities with

Preserving the integrity of a place and kind of going back to

the world of sustainability. you know, there's always a push and pull there. but you guys are building that innately to each brand. how

difficult is that trying to balance you know, the costs and preservation of it all?

Beverly (: 31:41

I would say that that's that's probably one of the most challenging aspects of our projects and our brands. The the biggest single answer to how we're able to do that is through off-site manufacturing.

So

we work with exclusively off-site manufactured structures, whether they're tents, whether they're cabins, whether they're fixed structures, everything is manufactured off-site, flat-packed, and shipped ready to assemble. And that that that was by design, and that is very deliberate. Because when you work with off-site manufacturing, which I think sometimes when people think off-site manufacturing, they think, you know, a structure in a box and

And it's going to be flimsy or it's not going to be luxury standards, but it's actually quite the opposite because we are able to, in a factory setting, completely control the build, the quality, control the cost. And then the beauty of that is that these structures are all light footprints, so they sit very lightly on the land as well. That ticks the sustainability box for us. It also means that when you are on site, you reduce all of the complexity that comes with trying to construct on site. Because what we're doing is really

Beyond the site preparation, it's assembly. So all of a sudden, you don't need massive construction crews of very specialized labor. You minimize that down and you simplify it pretty significantly, and you are therefore also able to very much so compress timelines. So instead of a hotel taking us, you know, five plus years, Cloud Collective is able to begin and end a project within an 18-month timeline, which is which

is which is which is pretty exciting.

Justin (: 33:20

Yeah. Owners definitely want to hear that. does

Beverly (: 33:23

Right.

Justin (: 33:23

building off site actually give you greater flexibility or does it introduce new constraints?

Beverly (: 33:29

I think that with anything, there are always constraints and limitations, and there are also always things that it opens up. So, for example, working with off-site manufacturing, we can really go where no one else can go. We can go to incredibly remote locations. You know, we've worked on designing projects, for example, in Saudi Arabia that are completely off-grid, zero infrastructure, and that's something that off-site manufacturing allows us to be able to do. But yes, of course, I think.

The constraints also of how we've chosen to build are that we can't build a you know a 50-story building, nor would we want to, by the way. But with any with any decision that you make, you need to get to know very intimately what the parameters are that you're working within and how you're still able to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

Justin (: 34:17

Right. And if a guest walks into one of the properties, would they

Beverly (: 34:20

Yeah.

Justin (: 34:21

even know it was built off site?

Beverly (: 34:22

Probably not, I would say. And I think if they and and if they can tell then we wouldn't have done our jobs very well.

Justin (: 34:26

It's just all that we wouldn't tell our doctor.

Beverly (: 34:28

you know, a lot of people know the outdoor hospitality industry is glamping.

And we very intentionally also don't use the word glamping because glamping can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. People can see it as, a tent is, you know, something very flimsy that I put in my backyard, or it's something that you'll see in Glastonbury, or or whatever it is. And so what we're creating aren't really tents, they're more tented suites.

you know, an example is of course the Aman in Utah, the Camp Camp Sarika And actually the manufacturer behind those tents are a partner that we work with. And they're people like that that have honed their craft over decades. And he's somebody that we are incredibly close to, Brendan O'Maloney, who's the founder, founder of the company. and so it's it's partners like that.

that we work with and that we design with and that we create the most physical manifestation of our brands with, that we choose very carefully.

Justin (: 35:27

Right. Do you think guests in the world of outdoor hospitality care how a hotel is built? Or is it simply the industry's responsibility to make better decisions?

You know, in this case it's about sustainability, thinking of the land, thinking of ways to be kinder to where you guys are building.

Beverly (: 35:46

Mm-hmm. I think it's both. I think that the modern traveler, especially our generation, has become very conscious over our impact on the environment and the world. And so I think sustainability is genuinely something that modern travelers care about and will continue to care about.

And it's something that to me, and going back to that positioning question of why we don't necessarily shout it from the rooftops all the time, is because sustainability to me is

more than just a certification. it's it's much more about are you doing it in a really authentic way? It's beyond the little sign in the bathroom that says, this is organic soap, or throw your towels on the floor if you want them to be washed, otherwise we won't wash them, right?

I think it needs to be integrated truly into the big things from the inception of a project. And so I think also as a company in this space, I do very much so feel a responsibility. I think that if we are not pushing the industry forwards and challenging ourselves and how we can do better and how we can do better for the industry as a whole, it's not something that

You know, I think it's something that is a responsibility for any player and any hospitality developer or brand or operator is to demand that of ourselves because that is how we are shaping the future of what this industry is going to become.

And something that I do like to say oftentimes as well is that what seems like something that is very out of this world or new today very quickly becomes an industry standard tomorrow. And there are several examples of that, but I think the way that everybody has taken on board sustainability is truly, truly a great example of that.

Justin (: 37:29

Well, I love what you just said there. It's really owning that as a company, building that into the philosophy of how you guys build and put back into the world because that's, you know, where the capital lies, and that's who is disrupting the spaces for future companies of follow suit. And it's clear that you guys lead with sustainability. it's clearly embedded in everything you build.

but what has been one of the hardest trade-offs, operational trade-offs, when you're genuinely committed to building responsibly?

Beverly (: 37:59

I think it's that sustainability and building responsibly isn't always the easiest thing. I would say even more so when you are in the luxury space, because sustainability is very much so a sliding scale. You can go very, very extreme with, you know, toilets that don't flush and

And you know, no air conditioning and certainly no pools, because pools are are a big impact driver, let's say. Or you can go the other end where you are a huge concrete building, you have all the facilities, all of the pools, all of the amenities, and you don't really think about that. So I think also for a company to call itself sustainable, it's it's to what definition of sustainability? And that's something that we need to hold ourselves to. so one of the key challenges.

For us, has been how do we be as sustainable as possible while delivering on a luxury level? Because luxury guests and guests that are paying a certain rate are going to expect a bathtub in the room and they're going to expect a pool and they're going to expect all of that, right? But an example is, you know, for one of our projects that we designed, we spent a lot of time.

trying researching, speaking with people, meeting with different partners and manufacturers of how can we build a pool more sustainably? Is there a way to do it where we can minimize concrete? You know, these are these are a lot of hours and a lot of resources that the team is just pouring their energy into to be able to come up with a solution for. Another example is, you know,

Air conditioning in a room, how do you be how how can you be more energy efficient? or water, for example, you have atmospheric water generators, wastewater management systems, how do you do that in a way that's more sustainable? So, again, these things aren't necessarily the sexiest to talk about, but they're all things that we put a lot of time

energy and resources behind. And sure, would it be easier for us to say, no, you know what, let's just build the pool a normal way because it's faster and it's cheaper? Of course that would be easier. And therein also inherently lies the other challenge, which is that there's always the balance between what product you want to deliver and this ambition of being sustainable with returns and commercials and what's going to make your owner or your investor happy.

Justin (: 40:13

these sustainability decisions, guests would never notice. But it sounds like Cloud Collective is really putting that in the forefront when building from, you know, design, construction, and operations, which I think will make these spaces even more appealing, even more unique.

Beverly (: 40:30

I think to that note, a lot of things, and if you think back about how you experience a space or a hotel space, you might think that you don't notice something, but it's something that you can feel. So another example is that when we were designing for Kaya Ko Pha Ngan and looking at materiality, we actually had somebody going around Indonesia and buying up

Teak from old abandoned or dilapidated buildings and old schools. And that's what we've used for the floorboards and the paneling. And so if you were to actually pry one of the floorboards off of one of the tented suites in Kaya and flip it around, you might see some old school paint. And while you may not notice it or even know that it's there, I I just love that. And I think that it really adds to to

The story and the beauty of it, and it's recycled 100-year-old teak. So, also from an operational perspective, you know, wood expands and contracts over time. And so when you have teak that is very old and it's upcycled or recycled, it's already done all of that. So, from a maintenance perspective and a longevity perspective, it's actually much more prudent and practical.

Justin (: 41:40

Well, it sounds like I have to experience one of these brands one of these days soon. And it's not just absolutely

Beverly (: 41:44

We would love to have you.

Justin (: 41:47

ha I can't wait to to explore and be adventurous at Roam, for example, or be immersed in, you know, an art forest. but you guys are also building multiple brands. There's I think maybe one or two more that is kind of has been left out, but just due to time, I think looking beyond, you know, your current projects.

Let's kind of dial in into Asia a little bit more. You guys are based in Bangkok. what destinations in Asia excite you most for this type of hospitality?

Beverly (: 42:14

Japan is a really exciting one for me, also because outdoor hospitality isn't necessarily very new in Japan or in East Asia, if you look at China, even Korea, as it is in other parts of Asia, such as Southeast Asia, where it's in very nascent stages. So Japan is very exciting because everybody is very familiar with outdoor hospitality. There is an existing demand there. There isn't necessarily the same education process within the industry when you're having conversations.

conversations with you know other other investors or or other owners but it's also just beautiful and so culturally rich and just speaks to everything that that we do. If you think about the Ryokan experience and just the years and years of tradition and and care into really, really the most minute details, that is something that very much so inspires us as well.

so while I could go on for hours and hours and we don't have hours and hours on all of the locations that we would would really look to and that we find really exciting, that's definitely a highlight for me.

Justin (: 43:16

you're right. there's a lot of untapped, unexplored places around Japan that really highlights this balance of surrounding yourself nature and taking a step back, and being in a very quiet space. that said, how do you see experiential resorts, alternative accommodations, and wellness continue to evolve in Asia?

Beverly (: 43:35

I think that at the end of the day, it's always going to come back to brand and your ability to really bring that to life. Whether you are a residence, whether you are a hotel, whether you're just a wellness club, whether you're, you know, whatever shape or form that takes, I think those that are able to do that well are the ones that are really going to win.

Justin (: 43:58

Right. And you know, we're in the world of fast moving tech. You came from a world of tech. What technologies

Beverly (: 44:03

Mm.

Justin (: 44:06

do you think will shape nature-based hospitality over the next decade?

Beverly (: 44:11

I think AI, of course, is top of mind for everybody. And it's going to be interesting to see how that's integrated into an industry as

I don't want to say old, but as you know, hospitality is very much so a legacy industry. And it's a really old school industry in that a lot of the way that things are done in hospitality today are oftentimes the answer to that is just n not necessarily is it the best way to do things, but it's that it's just how it's always been done. for better or worse, right? And and that's something that I think a lot of existing operators,

And players in the industry find extremely challenging, which is also why I think it's always important to have that balance in your team and in your company of the operators that are tried and true and know how to do that extremely, extremely well, but still are able to understand how they need to shift ways that have been done and challenge the way that they do things in a way that's going to address the problems that we have.

Today. So AI will be interesting to see how that informs how things are done because a lot of things are are able to be automated, I think, in the back end.

But then separate to that, technology and outdoor hospitality, I I feel very passionately passionately about this subject because I feel very strongly that tech shouldn't be brought into a hospitality context for the sake of for the sake of it. I don't want to see QR codes all around the room because that makes us seem like a modern brand. In fact, I don't want to see QR codes at all unless

It amplifies my experience as a guest or it makes my life as a guest easier. Because if you actually reflect on it, the way that technology is incorporated, especially at a property or a guest level today, is to make the operator's life easier. And so, this is something that within Cloud Collective, I am constantly challenging our team on as well, which is the best the best way of integrating tech into.

A project is something that just makes your life easier and that you don't see. It should be invisible.

Justin (: 46:10

I love that. Customer first. And I absolutely agree. I actually dislike QR codes. I just find it a little bit overused.

Beverly (: 46:16

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 46:18

And I think maybe because we're in the hospitality space, we know that it's really for the operators and not really for the guests.

Beverly (: 46:25

Right, right. just

gonna say I think that a lot of times technology is brought in to optimize, but if you go into a hotel experience where everything is so optimized, what you're gonna notice is that you are not actually you've taken out completely the human element of it.

And the human element is exactly what people are looking for and what they're craving and what gives it a sense of character and soul, right? So you don't want your hospitality experience to look like a checkout line or a self-checkout line rather, or you know, an airport kiosk where you can check yourself in and you know put the baggage on the belt yourself.

You wanted to make your enhance the guest experience and really retain the human element of that experience as well.

Justin (: 47:09

Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose looking back, you know, when you guys started Cloud Collective, AI wasn't really around. and

Beverly (: 47:16

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 47:17

I'm sure AI now is part of how you guys are building Cloud Collective, whether it's internal, you know, usage

Beverly (: 47:24

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 47:25

or potentially guest facing, as you mentioned, only if it really amplifies the guest experience. But what

Beverly (: 47:30

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 47:31

is one lesson from building cloud collective over the years that surprised you?

Beverly (: 47:35

I

think the biggest lesson that I personally

have taken away is can be summarized in just one sentence, which is what got you here won't get you there. Because there's a lot of learning when you're starting a new company and when you're embarking on projects that are incredibly difficult and challenging to create. It would be so much easier if what we were doing was just a very conventional build.

That can follow templates and we can follow every the way that things have been done in the industry. But I think it's also realizing as a company that just because we've built one brand successfully doesn't necessarily mean that everything we've taken from that we can just do again and again and again. I think there are frameworks that you create from doing something for the first time. But I think it's also this understanding of you have to be agile as a company.

and respond to evolving market demands, respond to an ever-shifting landscape, respond to all of those things. And so you have to keep yourself very, very adaptable and have this understanding of what got you here isn't necessarily gonna get you there.

Justin (: 48:44

Right. Well, that's a great, great lesson for anyone listening. And on that note, let's end off with something a little bit more fun. It's

Beverly (: 48:53

Okay.

Justin (: 48:53

a rapid fire round where I'm gonna ask you a couple questions and you can just say whatever that comes to mind first. How does that sound? Okay, here

Beverly (: 48:59

Okay. Great.

Justin (: 49:00

we go. So the first question is what is the most underrated island destination in Asia?

Beverly (: 49:06

that's a good one. I would love to say something very, very obscure in Indonesia, but being that I'm based in Thailand, I feel like I should say something Thai. So I'm gonna go with Kolipe.

Justin (: 49:15

Okay, I've never heard of it. Have to have to look that up after this. what is one hospitality trend you'd eliminate forever?

Beverly (: 49:23

QR codes. I don't know if that's trend,

Justin (: 49:24

Ha ha.

Beverly (: 49:26

but definitely one of them.

Justin (: 49:27

No,

totally agree. What is one experience every luxury traveler should try at least once?

Beverly (: 49:33

Safari, if you've if you've never been on Safari before, as an outdoor hospitality company, they invented outdoor hospitality. and they've done they've honed it to a T. So if you've never gone on Safari before, might not be the most original answer, but it will change your life.

Justin (: 49:50

Yeah. A a gateway into outdoor hospitality. how

Beverly (: 49:53

Hundred percent.

Justin (: 49:54

about a what about a brand outside hospitality that inspires your thinking?

Beverly (: 49:59

Patagonia, Patagonia is a really great one. I love everything that they've done. They've built, you know, they they've really maintained the essence of who they were when they first started and grown into a mammoth company, but that that's been able to stay true to who they are.

Justin (: 50:14

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And what about one prediction for hospitality in the next ten years?

Beverly (: 50:20

Prediction for hospitality in the next 10 years, I think being in the space that we're in, people are just going to continue to want to be outside and look to nature. And that's going to continue to just explode over the next few years.

Justin (: 50:36

Yeah, yeah, agreed. As we wrap up, what excites you most about this next chapter for Cloud Collective?

Beverly (: 50:42

I'm really personally excited about the work that we're doing on Roam. Calya Art Forest Retreat is going to be opening next year. And so I'm thrilled to be able to share that with the world very soon as well. Yeah, we're there's a lot to come that is worth being excited about. And those are probably the two highlights for me.

Justin (: 51:02

Right. And finally, where can listeners follow your journey and learn more about Cloud Collective?

Beverly (: 51:07

You can follow us on Instagram at Cloud Collective Co., LinkedIn as well. We often post updates. But those are probably the best channels to follow what we're up to these days.

Justin (: 51:16

Okay. Well, I'll put those links in the show notes below. But Beverly, it's been such a pleasure having you on. I feel like hospitality is often measured in occupancy ADR guest satisfaction scores, but I think today's conversation reminded me that the most memorable places aren't always defined by those metrics. They're defined by how they make us.

feel how they connect us to a place. And, you know, sometimes how they quietly change the way that we, you know, see the world around us. And

Beverly (: 51:49

Mm-hmm.

Justin (: 51:49

I think that's ultimately what Cloud Collective is trying to build, right? Not just hotels or resorts, but you know, places that people developed a relationship with. And so

Beverly (: 51:58

Yeah.

Justin (: 51:59

thank you for sharing your story and thank you for joining me on the Curious Concierge.

Beverly (: 52:03

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you so much for having me. It really means a lot to be able to talk about these subjects that are very close to my heart. So thank you for giving us a platform.

Justin (: 52:13

Absolutely. And we'll chat soon. I'm sure there's so much evolution that Cloud Collective is going to go through in the next couple of years. And I'm excited to follow along the journey.

Beverly (: 52:21

Looking forward to it. Thank you, Justin.