Can Hotels Automate Check-In Without Losing Hospitality? | Benny Wee, Vendfun | EP

Justin (: 00:33

The hotel front desk has remained largely unchanged for decades, but rising labor costs, staffing shortages, and changing guest expectations are beginning to challenge one of hospitality's most familiar rituals.

My guest today is Benny Wee, founder and CEO of Vendfun, a Malaysian hospitality technology company building automation solutions for hotels across Southeast Asia.

Benny did not come from the hotel industry. His background spans semiconductors, touchscreen technology, global supply chains, and unmanned retail.

The idea for VendFun began with a late night hotel arrival, a slow check in at two in the morning, followed by the discovery that there was nowhere left to find food.

His answer was to combine self check-in and vending within one physical system.

In this conversation, we explore why he chose hardware over mobile only technology,

hidden operational pressures facing budget hotels, whether the traditional front desk will disappear, and how automation can give hotel employees more time to provide meaningful service rather than simply replace them.

Justin Sun (: 01:35

Benny, welcome to the Curious Concierge. Thanks so much for spending some time with me today.

Benny Wee (: 01:39

All right, thank you, Justin. Thank you for the time and thank you for giving me the opportunity to share what Vendfun is doing. Really excited to be here with you today.

Justin Sun (: 01:48

Absolutely, well I'm excited to chat because you're building something extremely unique that I think a lot of people might have already used. But before we get into Vendfun I would love to learn a little bit more about yourself. Your background isn't a traditional hospitality background.

You came from a deep tech supply chain background, so this makes it even more interesting. I would love to learn a little bit on how or why you got into hospitality in the first place.

Benny Wee (: 02:15

So I started actually working in UK for two years, right? That time was actually in semiconductor industry, a fabulous semiconductor industry. So what we do is that we actually do a chip controller for touchscreen for all the mobile phone. I still remember that is during 2005, that is where iPhone had not even launched yet. So iPhone actually launched in 2006, iPhone 3G. So that time we're already doing touchscreen.

and I got a position there as a CRM, customer relationship manager to manage Taiwan, China region, Japan and Korea region. So that time during UK time, I started with this. Of course my background in terms of degree wise, I graduated as marketing management, but I was in the semiconductor industry. So after in two years of working for them, then I got an opportunity to say that the country manager over in Taiwan

resigned or retired asking me, you want to take up the offer? So of course I stayed in UK for two years. I would prefer to go back to Taiwan, not go back, going to Taiwan, something very similar that we speak Chinese and things like that. So I decided to take up the challenge. So then I landed in Taiwan, I worked there starting from a field marketing manager up to a global sales GM as well. So starting from a semiconductor fabulous, then into a material of touchscreen, then touchscreen ecosystem.

the Vietnam was taken around: 2018

the unmanned Retail shop, I think we ran somewhere around one year, then it got shut down due to the master franchise, the master franchise collapsed. So then I no choice. I had to still get the business running then, because when we do the unmanned Retail shop, it's using a vending machine model. So then what happened is that I flew to China, looked for a new source. Then I started to do a vending machine business because of unmanned Retail shop doesn't really.

fly because of the master franchise. Then I started to place machine, semi-retire where you place the machine and vending machine, kind of like you don't need to really have people to really do it for you, you can do it yourself and things like that. So after that, for some time, I started to place machine in factories, in some budget hotels as well, and some is in...

pping places and by that time: 2020

Hq for meeting then we ended up the people always say the red-eye flying you you ended up 1 a.m. 2 a.m. In the morning and still need to check in to hotel and Being a hotel or hospitality industry you need to be very polite you know so I went to a check-in counter 2 a.m. 1 a.m. And say hi sir how are you in my mind can I check in now? Can you don't ask me so many questions? But it just tried to be polite how's your day? know flight is it got delayed? How is it easy to get your taxi and things like that so

cut

the story short after 10 minutes of talking and them doing the check-in then I got checked in into the room. So after checking in in the room of course 1-2 a.m. you feel hungry right then the room service closed at 11 p.m. So I basically sleep in hunger right so I got no choice nothing to eat sleep with hunger basically. Then this this scenario actually pops in my mind during Covid shutdown and in my mind, how about we do these two things together?

in

faster, no annoyance from anybody than self-service

vending machine that able to supply things for me to eat some snacks to cure my hunger. So that's the idea of POSA. So I basically combined these two things and make it into a one product. So it's basically a two in one kiosk, vending machine and self-checking together. And happily I patented this particular product and it's the one and only now in Malaysia that you have a two in one machines. That is where I started this hospitality automation.

information journey.

Justin Sun (: 06:40

Amazing.

love how you're problem solving your own issues that you face and you problem solved it with not a simple solution you solved it with a physical element and I think a lot of people

probably built software before hardware, but I suppose your background in semiconductor and touch interfaces gave you that ability to build something like that. So I would love to learn a little bit more about...

you know, building that initially, right?

Since you've had that experience having a retail environment with unmanned kiosks and vending machines, you probably got very familiar with retail space. And now you're moving into hospitality, which is completely different as you have an operational layer to it. Now, before we get into those details, I'm wondering why did you decide to actually build a physical layer to this element? As I mentioned, you could have built some software to

to resolve your issues too, perhaps something that is more digital, online, something that could be done outside of the hotel before they check in, why actually create something in the hotel at the check-in desk?

Benny Wee (: 07:50

Yeah, so of course.

manned Retail Shop. So during: 2018

Although I'm in technology, I understand technology, but we need to be in the consumer perspective. When the market is not ready, we cannot go too fast. So you just now you brought up a good point. Why not mobile check-in? So basically that's what you're saying. Why not mobile check-in? Everybody in Asia is doing mobile check-in, but Asia, in Malaysia doing mobile check-in, they still need a kiosk to collect the ticket. So I understand one thing that I learned very strongly is that sometimes technology

you

started using a kiosk around: 2014

very very common. So I started with hardware. It's because I see the market is not quantum leap up to the so-called mobile checking level yet. And a lot of people will say, Benny, why do the hard job? Hardware, you need to bring the machine, carry the machine, plan for the transportation. Why not you sit inside aircon room, hire a few software program engineer, do the online things, right? So I purposely want to do something, of course, hardware is my...

passion as well, but I realized one thing is that this industry not many people like to get their hands dirty. So because I'm starting on a total new industry, don't pick a race that is too competitive. Now that time online is too competitive. That's why I started with hardware and I believe the market is ready for hardware interface, touchscreen interface, but not that much on online yet. So that gives me the reason why I want to start with hardware first.

rather than software.

Justin Sun (: 10:08

amazing.

building something physical like that, I'm sure took a lot.

What were the initial challenges that you had faced while building a product? You mentioned you have a patent. You mentioned previously to me too, that you started off with one or two hotels before really realizing that this could be something big. And so how was that?

initial growth phase for you.

Benny Wee (: 10:31

So I started with honestly myself, the guy that don't know programming.

I

owdfunding for information in: 2021

in terms of USD wise. We got funded in 24 hours through our crowdfunding. So I was honestly also very shocked because all my working, all my life I'm working for other people. So I took the challenge, I want to start something for my own. So I want to experience all the journey what all the startups would do, right? Funding, VCs, pitching, things like that. So I took the challenge, I submitted for funding, crowdfunding, and that is during the COVID time as well. A lot of people when I talk to my friend, they say, you are crazy, man.

of Covid time and you do hospitality industry. All hotels are almost dying and you venture into the industry. So I took a leap of faith and I because I believe that every turbulence one day it will rise back again. So that is the time when I enter is where the time I do preparation. So that is where we start to do some development, start to do those hardware design, things like that. So when the market starts to reopen that's where we really start going promoting around and that's give me more

encouragement where because of course during the day I also do some surveys you know asking hotelers what is your pain points right this my solution really helps you so a lot of that gives me a very positive view you know positive result that yeah my staff they don't come to work you know they got additive problem Monday come Tuesday don't come Wednesday say mother say so and I as a hotel no I will no choice I have to become a front desk right so that

That's how I see that our solution really address pain point. So that's why I mentioned in today's take the difficult stand on going to hardware and really address the hotellas problem.

Justin Sun (: 12:39

so much excitement and congratulations it was so serendipitous that it was COVID and I'm sure a lot of people probably believed in

non-human interaction environment. So amazing. That said,

Benny Wee (: 12:51

again.

Justin Sun (: 12:53

Would love to move into your findings in the hotel space. You came from the outside world. weren't a hotelier. You didn't work in hospitality prior and the hotel world is quite traditional. I'm sure you've learned that throughout your journey and growth, working with property management systems and hotels and how they operate internally. underneath there's a

lot of operational challenges and so currently what would you say are the biggest problems hotels are facing today operationally and how does Vendfun solve

Benny Wee (: 13:28

when we started this business, we log on more towards budget and business hotel. Reason being because normally it's owned by a single owner, you know, and a lot of time is not their main business. Some of them is like their side business. They have a restaurant business, have a construction business, you they just have this as a side business hotel. So I realized one thing, they always struggle with human turnover, right? Front desk turnover. So because of being budget hotel,

so much pay minimal wage in Malaysia. You basically pay minimal wage. So when you pay minimal wage, the staff come to work and other work, other opportunity or other hotel offer something 3 % more, they will just jump. So you like work for three months, four months, five months. I just fully trained them how to use the PMS system. Then he left. Then I need to rehire again, get a new one in, train them again. Maybe this one is better, work for six months. Then he left.

So

much frustration when I hear from the owner where staff turnover is one key issue. Of course, you say cost if this is an issue, yes, cost is always an issue for a budget hotel owner. But what I see is the staff turnover is very critical. Then the third one that I see is on the so-called hanky panky. So a lot of them, Bass, because the hotel owner is not their main business, a lot of times they are not in a hotel. So all the regular come, they say, hey, pay, no need to receive, they pocket the

money themselves and they let them in. So these are a lot of things happen on this situation. So these are a few key points that I realized here from the hotel owner and I believe then, hey, my product really can be able to help them throughout all this problem. Now, again, to back a bit on what you mentioned about what are the hurdles, right? The hurdles that I face when I talk to the hotel owner, normally hotel owner for budget are,

40 to 60 years old age. So for them, technology is also a struggle. I don't know what kiosk is all about. When I don't know, does my client know how to use it, right? So that is also one of their struggle. of course,

studying a business, always the first 10 to tell. Always a struggle. I need to convince them, talk to them, da da da. And of course, there are some is on second generation. There is an easier close. The stunts start to take over. Things like, the sun will say, automation very good. I like it. Things like that. So this is one of the hurdles when I started at the time. Although we address pinpoint, but technology adaptation sometimes is kind of like a not easy job to do as well. Convinced, not easy job.

to convince. But yeah, after the first 10, things start to get smooth.

Justin Sun (: 16:00

in budget hotels, you make a really great point. Fraud can be a true pain point for owners. And some people kind of forget about that when they don't have

Benny Wee (: 16:09

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 16:09

the right tech tools, accounting systems, softwares, or processes to avoid those issues. Now that you

had such a in-depth view in hospitality operations, especially the front of house, the check-in desk, which is probably one of the most important places, given that it's the first impression that you're making. Before we get into all those details, I would like to know, when you walk into a hotel today, where do you immediately see inefficiencies?

Benny Wee (: 16:39

Okay, so if you're talking about using our solution, what we see is, as I mentioned earlier on, checking in the hotel,

Last time when I was in US, took me somewhere around 10 minutes. If you check in five star hotel in Malaysia, sometimes it even took you around 20 minutes. I don't know why, but it took you 20 minutes to check you in. So with our solution, of course, efficiency wise is check in less than two minutes fast, check out less than 60 seconds. So this is what something that you can see in terms of efficiency wise. And also, we also can

language barrier like in Malaysia nowadays you see a lot of Chinese tourists come over a lot of Europeans they came over and some don't speak English and some of front desk don't speak English right because we hire very low level front desk because of budget wise then we struggle with communication as well so yeah I think efficiency wise definitely the check-in speed is definitely the improvement on that efficiency

Justin Sun (: 17:33

since we're talking about labor and efficiencies, do you think hotels are structurally understaffed now or were they historically overstaffed?

Benny Wee (: 17:42

Well, last time honestly speaking during, I would say five years ago.

lot of hotels, their business are not bad because of competition are not strong at that time. So a lot of hotels, what they do is they can be able to have four staff, morning shift, afternoon shift, night shift, one manager, or if there's one more extra as a replacement for the three shift, because some of them take a leave, then they can do a replacement emergency, and some will hire another manager just on the front desk itself. So that one...

I would say overstaff, right? Then when COVID hit, things changed. I don't know why, I'm not sure about in Hong Kong. Until today, there are still few budget hotels no longer operate after 11.

So you'll be surprised that I thought the hotel all the while is 24-7. How come now it's like after 11, no longer operate is because in Malaysia, the COVID time, we actually shut down almost like two and a half years, right? On, off, on, off, on, off, I believe your country as well. So it becomes like, I think hotel can work without after 11 p.m. So a lot of customer not able to get used to it because sometimes you check in late night, right? So after business or whatever, you check in.

and nobody knows that. So that's how I see it's basically

Justin Sun (: 18:55

you

Benny Wee (: 18:56

a very very big struggle for all the hotel here.

Justin Sun (: 19:00

Right? And that's a very interesting point because obviously, Ven Fund or your kiosks are solving that problem when the hotel is shutting down. And you're absolutely right. It's such a unique, interesting...

unexpected thing in the hotel industry where hotels are not 24-7 staff because that's the whole point of a hotel. If not, you might as

well stay

Benny Wee (: 19:24

Yes.

Justin Sun (: 19:25

at an vacation rental, right? Because you're essentially resolving issues on your own if there's something late at night. So that

Benny Wee (: 19:33

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 19:34

leads me to the next question.

when people and so we've been talking a lot about kiosks, checking kiosks and when people hear that they might think it's just a checking machine but what you've built is actually much broader so I would love to give you the floor and explain to us a little bit on what Vendfun really does how would you explain it in simple terms

Benny Wee (: 19:57

Yeah, so basically what we do in simple terms is like we give Hotelies peace of mind

and a well experience for their guests through automation. Basically that's one word, right? To explain, elaborate a little bit, how can we be able to give them peace of mind? Of course, as I mentioned earlier on, staff turnover no longer is headache for the hotel owner, right? And customer complain, nothing to eat because there are some budget hotel is actually outskirt. You can't find convenience store easily. So they will need something to eat. They can take our hybrid machine. We have a hybrid case as mentioned.

After that we design our kiosks into a tabletop version, a standing version. You can see from here the back is the tabletop version of the kiosk. We can make it more cost-compatible, I should say. So we have varieties of models, So depending on the hotel objective. So our core is basically to help the hotel owners streamline their operation, manage all the...

inserted operations, right? So there are a lot of wanting to highlight this. This is a bit small matter, but it does raise a point. The one hotel or a few hotel owner always told me, my staff always key name, always key in wrong. So the guest name, I want to key, they always key in wrong. It's either missed one alphabet or extra one alphabet. But with automation, once you scan your passport, your ID card, everything is automatically inserted into the PMS system. So there's no human error. So there's one thing that we have.

to help all the hotel operators as well. So I think to talk about broader view from Vendfun is that we are no longer, we started as a kiosk Solution Provider. We are still a Kiosk Solution Provider but we are talking about now more broader view in terms of pre, during and after. What do we do in terms of pre? Of course pre is Kiosk Check-in. Before you check into the hotel, you come to a lobby, you got a kiosk you

So we also have a solution that we call it the in-room ordering where sometimes when you travel to some other countries like that, say for example I'm using Grab, Grab Car, right in Malaysia it's popular but in China there is no Grab so you have to download a different app. Like over here if you're European, came to Malaysia you struggle as well then you have to use Uber, in Malaysia there's no Uber then you struggle right. So you can be able to offer what we do is the in-room ordering system where you are able to order

the taxi from the app pay through credit card no no app sorry it's a web app whether you don't need to download anything so scan make your payment pay then tomorrow a taxi driver will you up and you also can buy your ticket or team park ticket nearby you know and some food voucher as well you can be able to do it without in-room water

system that is during let me call it and we also have a chatbot solution where the chatbot will answer your questions a lot of common question is like hey can you bring me two bottle of water right i don't know you experience it but when i went to some countries japan that they don't really speak english well my english is also not that great and i asked hey two bottle of water cinema say i don't understand what you say you know things like that you struggle so i would prefer something that i type in english bring me two bottle of water

then they will send it to me. So that is where we call it an in-room chat solution where it gives the guests a more comfortable way because nowadays you see a lot of hotels in their room doesn't come with phone anymore, no more PMP and system phone. I'm not sure you realize that, some already don't have that. what you can do, can use a chat model, chat overcome your language barrier problem. So that is the during and we also have a smart room solution. You can log into the room, can say, okay Google, turn on the

turn off the light, basically wow your guests. Then after one night stay, next day you want to check out, you go through our kiosk to check out. So basically that is where we call it a pre, during and after. So we hope that a whole automation solution can actually wow your guests, streamline operation and one thing good about our check is that if you dwell long enough talking to all the budget hotel owner, they always wanted to get the review. Not sure you'll notice that.

The boss always ask us the staff to get a review on us customer go Agoda or booking.com or Google review and the staff always don't do that, right? So you struggle so what we do is that when we can do is when customer Check out right we can be able to send them a text. How's your stay with us? If the reply I'm not being Manipulative, but if the reply is not positive and I'm sorry, sir, you know next time we do better

If the reply is positive, because the chat is also human as well, so we will send them, sir, since your state reader is very positive, do you mind to give us a Google review about your state? So you pick up all the points. So that is what Hoteller needs, a positive review. So we can basically do all this thing into one rather than just purely a kiosk. That's what Venfront is all about. I hope that it gives you a better picture.

Justin Sun (: 24:45

Absolutely,

and that's a fantastic way to describe your company. And ultimately, would you say you've evolved from a kiosk company into an operating system for hotels?

Benny Wee (: 24:56

Yes, full operation system, from pre, during and after.

Justin Sun (: 25:01

And you mentioned too that during the checkout process, there is a human element when it comes to the chat bot and understanding the customer sentiment before sending the review link. What are your thoughts about AI? Are there elements in your processes or in the customer journey that you've leaned into more AI reliance?

Benny Wee (: 25:22

Yes,

AI always in my DNA, you know, because I'm technology person, right?

So it's always in my DNA and I always do something like that. We already tasked my so-called CTO what we can do, how can we use AI to really improve and minimize the mistake. Because when you talk about human, human is still human, Reply can be slow and reply can be misleading, things like that as well. So we are R &D stage on this particular solution and we hear a lot on Renaissance Group is actually using AI already, Ascott Group.

is already using AI already. Slowly by slowly they are using AI to minimize or overcome human error. So yeah definitely this is a roadmap.

Justin Sun (: 26:05

Well, it seems like you're right. Large companies, large brands are slowly implementing it.

You have Wyndham, for example, that has integrated into OpenAI all the way down to implementing it for staff on site on property. And they're spending millions into this. And so it'll be interesting to see how the industry evolves. That said,

Benny Wee (: 26:27

Yes, definitely.

Justin Sun (: 26:28

I'm really curious to hear.

During this process, what part of the guest's journey did you realize was the most broken?

Benny Wee (: 26:36

A few examples. First is, as I mentioned earlier, budget hotel, they pay budget and they really cannot hire good people. So when you cannot hire good people, language is an issue. EQ is an issue, right? The customer a bit louder, the staff is louder than the customer, right? And keep on asking questions that the staff don't understand. Some is cry that you can't be able to solve your problem, then she sit there and cry.

Some even hire foreigners to become a front desk which is not allowed by the way, but no choice. They hire a foreigner to become a front desk and some is from Indonesia, some from Pakistan. How do you expect you give him the good service? So that's what we see. There is a broken chain and a lot of people say, hey, I tell you to pick up or train them. We need to understand the reality here. They collect 60 to 100 ringgit a night.

from

you. So you can't expect them to pay a degree holder or a hospitality management grad to go and serve you as a counter. So that's where I see the real reason where automation should exist in budget segment. And budget segment is the largest and it touches a lot of people, right? Because a lot of people is in that area. When you talk about four five star, then of course four or five star a total

different beast. But just to share, I'm not sure you're gonna ask it or not, but I just share it before I forgot, is that I realized one thing, Four Five Star Hotel already start to deploy Kiosk. And when I started to talk to them, I said, why? They said, oh, any, Marriott Hotel, right, start to deploy Kiosk. We need to show the public that we are technology-driven hospitality company as well.

Whether you use or not use, different story, but I need to show you I'm technology driven, right? Of course it does help. are some youngsters,

Zen Z you know Zen Alpha right so you don't like to talk to people anymore you want something do everything on your own so that is where the four five stars start to morph and start to change so they always give me a thing called self-checking kiosk is an alternative checking experience it's not to replace my friend s that's what their objective is but I realized

and I did some study, like for example, Citizen Hotel, Swiss Hotel in Singapore. Citizen hotel, all their hotel because they target business traveler, youngster, right? So they have a kiosk. And they have a model because of their so-called four-star, you cannot lose out the personalization. So they have a person standing aside at the kiosk, they call them ambassador. Sir, do you need any help to check in, sir? Yeah, you need help, I can help you. If you don't need, nevermind, you can do your check-in, Right, so they start to see,

this but for Swiss Hotel, pure five-star in Singapore, I talked to their QA VP as well, quality VP that time. said Benny, first thing is I wanted to show everybody that we are technology driven. Second thing is the kiosk

is to help the guest and the front desk to be much closer. You'll be surprised. I said, how can it be much closer? You imagine, traditionally, is it front desk, counter, guest, correct? So the distance is actually through a counter. We only talk through a counter. But now, if you go to the Swiss Hotel Singapore, or you can Google it, they actually have a very huge table with 10 kiosks, and they have four, five front desks as well.

So their role is, sir how can I help you? Oh no no, can check in, you can check in yourself, please. Then they bring their kids along and the front desk now no longer have a barrier of a table. They can play with their kids, right? So some people that, you help me check in, so they're standing beside them. So it's no longer a barrier, you know. So they're standing beside them, get their passport, check in for them. It's the same thing, right? Check in for them and all this. The kid, everything. So now the relationship without a barrier.

So that's how some hotel uses technology to actually make the relationship much closer. So that's how I find it, two different segments of the market using two different kiosks with a different objective. And we see the trend actually moving towards that because it gets more personalized now with side-by-side talking.

Justin Sun (: 30:46

That's a great observation and it's so interesting to see these luxury higher end hotels decide to move into that direction. Being closer physically to the guests, I'm sure scientifically,

research probably shows that you're already creating that relationship building and you're

Benny Wee (: 31:03

Yes, yes.

Justin Sun (: 31:04

able to really express the service, the style of tone and voice of the brand to the customer. And so that's a very, very powerful thing that you're able to do when providing these

Benny Wee (: 31:16

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 31:17

kiosks.

That said, there's been a lot of investments you probably have seen, obviously, with large travel tech companies. We have PMS players like Muse that's based in Amsterdam that's gotten a large amount of funding. We also have Canary Technologies, another example, or there's a ton of different marketing CRM tools as well. You probably know this now that you are integrated into the check-in marketing funnel.

hotel systems are outdated. They're really old and they don't really speak to each other.

You probably learned that sometimes a hotel might only recognize Benny, but they might not recognize when you check in as Benny Wee or maybe with a different email or with a different phone number. And then you lose out on that ability to create personalization, that loyalty, that trust that you think you would walk into because you've stayed at this hotel multiple times. Why

do you

Benny Wee (: 32:13

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 32:13

think hospitality technology is still so fragmented?

Thank

Benny Wee (: 32:17

So I think hospitality is so fragmented is because...

A lot of companies, the way they focus things is when I do PMS, I make sure I do PMS well. When I do channel manager, I make sure I do channel manager well. Not everybody really thinks as a whole picture because a lot of people want it specialized, right? So that's why I work different way, right? I don't do PMS as per say, but I want to make sure all the offline experience from pre, during, after is seamless. That's why I don't just do...

I come up with a other things, but because I don't do PMS, I want to be friends with PMS, right? So that's why when you don't do things as a full ecosystem, this sometimes happen, right? So when I integrate with channel manager, channel manager don't give me this data, I don't have this data, then I struggle to define who you really are, you know? And for information, I'm not mentioning OTA name, but there's some OTA, just give you email address.

don't give you phone number, they give you name, email address. Some even worse, no email address, only name. So how we as a kiosk gonna overcome it when you don't even have a...

phone number, some don't even have email, they give me a name. So our kiosk has the capability to check in by name only. So what to do? Because they don't give other details and even the booking ID sometimes is different. So PMS got whatever channel manager gave them and they put it there. So I need to struggle going to ask on PMS. PMS, they have a booking ID and it's a wrong booking number because why? They do cross selling, Agoda, Crosssell, Booking.com.

You won't get the same booking number from both parties. So that's how we have to overcome it. So I realized one thing, we are like the middle guy that try to make the experience seamless. Whatever you are lacking, whatever you have, you give. Don't have, I try to balance it up so that the experience is seamless. again, as I said, that's how I see it where you don't really get a full experience because some PMS, not all.

Some does full stack, some don't. That's where find the information are fragmented, then the guests don't get the full experience. That's how I view it.

Justin Sun (: 34:29

Well,

hospitality is all about service and guest experiences. And it's interesting to see these PMSs, which is essentially the brain of the hotel.

lack that awareness, right? Because they're not building certain features. They're relying on the hotels to then have these multiple tech stacks. And so I'm sure we're all building towards that, amazing seamless experience for the, for the guests, which then brings me to a very interesting question. Now that you've worked with multiple hotels in different, price range or different segments.

Do guests actually want a frictionless experience or do they actually just want a better experience? And a better experience could mean faster check-ins as you mentioned, or it could mean while I'm trying to check in on the screen, someone serves me a drink or maybe someone helps me with my suitcase. I'm sure budget hotels have different sorts of criteria and service methods, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

given that you've worked with quite a range of hotels so far.

Benny Wee (: 35:31

Yeah,

so as I

budget hotel one fast, frictionless.

Four, five star require a service. Four, five star also cannot hire 10 front desk, They also have a budget. Even though it's a five star, you cannot hire 10 front desk. At the end of the day, still the bottom line, right? So maybe the front desk will, what do call it, struggle even because why? One check in, got like 50 people queuing in, some can't even cope up with it, right? So that's how I look at it.

Justin Sun (: 35:59

I'm sure you've also worked with some hotels, that they shut down or I would say shut down. They close off man hours, right? And so maybe let's say after midnight, there's no staff on site or maybe even some budget hotels are just reliant on digital interfaces or kiosks. Do you think guests are emotionally still attached?

to the idea of a front desk, how has that experience been? Especially for hotels that have just a, you know, a kiosk there. And I'm sure you might've seen too, there's some hotels where you have a tablet and you're...

the staff is actually just on a Zoom call or just on a camera on the other side and they're checking you in. It's a live person, but they're either at home or in an office or a call center and just say, hi, how are you? Let me get all those details for you. Has there been a change in the expectations or emotional attachments with the front desk?

Benny Wee (: 36:58

Well, when I talk to US, like Wyndham group, they actually have a requirement where you cannot do a man hotel. The group itself saying that hospitality need to have a human. So how they solve this is what you have mentioned. A person outsource and the problem that I see honestly speaking, a lot of them they outsource to India. So when they outsource the other side of the people that you see is Indian, nothing on racist Indian is fine. But the problem is when they speak English is so fast,

Some local can't even understand their English well. So you struggle to have a language communication issue, right? So using that, if you ask me, it does help somewhat or rather with a real human behind the screen that talks to you and address you accordingly. Yes. But it also creates frustration as well.

And you also need to understand is when they outsource, it's not 100 people outsource manning on the kiosk itself. They maybe have five people, call center, managing 50 hotels or 20 hotels. Some even have to queue. To talk to a person, you need to queue.

Because be realistic, there will not be an outsourced people sitting there 24 hours on the camera talking to you. There's no such thing, right? So it also have this problem as well. So again, the pros, the good side of it, is you have some interaction. With the kiosk, purely kiosk, some people like it. No such solution in the world serve the whole world.

you know that's how I always look at it. So if you look at even my websites, even Agorda or my customers, there are some customers give a very good review. Check in very fast, better privacy, I don't receive people, know, somebody don't want people to know they check in hotel as well. So they like the privacy, they like the fast check in and they like the frictionless because why few button pop up, get your card go in. So again, people will like that. That's how I look at it that not always having people is a good

team.

Right? And also not always, know people is a good thing as well. Right? So we need to a balance and you need to take into consideration the realistic world about costing and hiring and hiring the right candidate. So a lot of people when they talk, they like to talk about the beautiful scenario. There's no such thing in beautiful scenario, unless you're Microsoft, right? And you're Amazon, you pay humongous amount, you select people.

But if you're a budget hotel, they select you, not you select them. Right, so you need to be realistic about it as well. So that's how I view it.

Justin Sun (: 39:27

Yeah, also I guess the service industry right now too is also suffering because it is hard to find Gen Z's, Gen Alpha folks who are interested in the service industry. They're so tech focused.

They lack the awareness of how service industry is really special, that connection, that relationship that you can build in person. And it's also a hard industry. And I think a lot of people, you know, post COVID world, aren't really looking for these sort of roles. So hiring in general also tends to be tougher now. And so striking that balance is very important.

since we're focusing on the budget segment in Southeast Asia or the markets that you're in, what percentage of hotels do you think will be fully automated in the next five to 10 years?

Benny Wee (: 40:10

I won't give you a very specific number but based on experience at the moment we see that customer that using our kiosks now I would say maybe 10 to 20 percent running as unmanned fully unmanned

There are some they only reduce night shift because there are some hotel owner still very traditional. Benny I need somebody there So they reduce because night shift normally is the least productive shift

because sell good people maybe midnight two three guests check in other than that most of them check in on time right so they reduce their night shift some to further cut costs to increase their so-called profit margin they take out two shift meaning night shift and afternoon shift morning shift they keep right so this is the trend that i see we talk about five years to ten years time hotel adopting kiosks i wouldn't say unmanned hotel but hotel that adopting kiosks

Well, the market is pretty huge because now when we hit 100 over hotels already and I no longer face a question of, Benny, does the kiosk work or not? My customer will help you with the kiosk or not? No such question anymore. So, for us, it's also growing now and we see that 50%, 5 to 10 years time, 50 % will start to adopt all this technology in this particular segment. But again, 4-5 Star is also moving towards that.

that route as well. But it's a different objective altogether which I share with you.

Justin Sun (: 41:34

Very interesting. given your expertise in Southeast Asia, do operators in Asia think differently about technology adoption compared to the West?

Benny Wee (: 41:44

Surprisingly when I start talking to a lot of ASEAN countries, because a lot of people told me, Benny, ASEAN, the labour is so cheap, why you go into ASEAN region where they find it so cheap? I find it one thing, ASEAN region, of course, being an ASEAN country and a budget hotel, nothing is cheap.

You pay $: 1000

is like they pay them like 200 or something like that. I said 200 dollars a month you still can survive in capital? they took our kiosk because surprisingly the owner said that they don't want to count how much under table money they have stolen from him.

Right. So this is one of the key reason because you take your us no longer issue cut from counter You must issue cut from the kiosk. So when every time they were issued cut from kiosk I know whether the room is cell or under table cell, right? So you cannot get this anymore So that's the reason why they took our solution and now again as I said cost is always expensive for them No matter what amount it is. They always say complaint expensive. So one of reason is also Costing as well that I see now we talk about

Western, I'm not do a lot in Western yet, but I do Singapore. So Singapore is basically very Western, the costing and all things like that, So a lot of our client going for this is, that is real cost. So they said hiring in Singapore is so expensive.

Now that is really expensive in Singapore, there is no way to avoid that topic. So one thing is cost is really there. Second thing is also because of Singapore, they protect a lot of Singaporean, right? So they have a target where when you hire one Singaporean, no, you can hire one foreigner when you hire...

three Singaporean or something like that three to one but my friend a budget hotel how many Singaporean you need to hire right so i don't need that many stuff so they have to figure a way not to mention how they have to figure a way to hire a foreigner right and when you find a foreigner it's also not cheap you know convert to malaysia is a manager pay you know

Singapore front desk foreigner, convert to Malaysia is manager pay. If you're Singaporean doing a front desk, convert to Malaysia, it's a senior manager pay. So they struggle. So costing is one thing. Hiring is second thing. course, the costing in hiring and the so-called staff turnover. So no brainer for them to take out a kiosk. That's how I look at it in terms of developed countries and developing countries.

Justin Sun (: 44:33

I

see. Very interesting. And I would say also given the budget hotel have to move fast since it's imperative to look at costs. Why do you think the budget hotel segment is actually more innovative than luxury sometimes when it comes to tech, when it comes to automations?

Benny Wee (: 44:50

So look at this this way when you talk about budget their thinking is very very

fast where how can I make money from here because it's a single owner normally a single owner right how can I make money over this business how can I be able to solve the current problem that I have on my human resource problem so their their role is thinking how to do it and they can decide very very fast because if we solve their problem they decide fast so that's why in for us as well our sales cycle for a budget hotel owner they come today if the staff i get a call hey boss tomorrow i resign Benny when can you install the kiosk

They're not hiring anymore. They want to decide now. So when you talk about 4 5 star, it's different because it's the whole structure organization and none of them is the owner. Honestly speaking, because start from GM is hired third party, start from senior manager, start from front desk, start from this manager, everybody is not running own the business. It's all...

Celerity I should say so a lot of decision a lot of things these go through a very very long cycle balkan thing this that that that and when the organization gets bigger the

the chain of command and the the will to change right

Justin Sun (: 46:00

Mm.

Benny Wee (: 46:01

is it's not that

Although the maybe the board say that we need to do something about this, we need to change this, our cost is too high, da da da. Nobody move, why? Because it's too big of a change for few component that is gone, somebody need to fill that component. So it's very different from a budget hotel. That's why I said smaller people, even like us, we are a startup, we do things very fast.

Imagine when you ask to do something from a listed company, Japanese company, you imagine how long they will fix one thing for you. In Malaysia, we have some customer that deal with big hotels. No, deal with a big brands on kiosks. If my solution got problem, I ship the parts, I ask people there to change it for me. I don't repair. If big chain got problem, they also don't repair on the spot, but they bring back the kiosks.

In my mind, you bring back the kiosk for one week, what happen? I don't have a kiosk for one week. And some even take two weeks. Bring back, check everything, is all okay, properly test, then ship it back. And it's like two weeks, I don't have a kiosk to run. So that is how smaller company, big companies difference, smaller budget hotel and big hotel change difference. That's how I look at it.

Justin Sun (: 47:11

Very

interesting, very interesting. Well, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I would love to move on to my favorite part, the rapid fire questions.

first thing that comes to mind, you can just say it. Are you ready? All

Benny Wee (: 47:24

Okay.

Justin Sun (: 47:25

right. What's harder, scaling software or scaling hardware?

Benny Wee (: 47:29

Screen power.

Justin Sun (: 47:30

What breaks first when you scale into a new country or a new city?

Benny Wee (: 47:35

the SOP of different countries.

Justin Sun (: 47:37

One hotel experience that felt completely broken.

Benny Wee (: 47:42

Communication barrier.

Justin Sun (: 47:43

kiosks or mobile check-in.

Benny Wee (: 47:46

Definitely kiosk.

Justin Sun (: 47:47

What is the most overrated trend in hotel tech right now?

Benny Wee (: 47:51

got it. paid TV They always tell you to

Justin Sun (: 47:53

You know what? That's

a very good point. I feel like not a lot of people really care if their names are mentioned in the TV during check-in too.

One thing hotels are wasting money on today.

Benny Wee (: 48:05

unnecessary expensive renovation.

Justin Sun (: 48:07

what is one of your most favorite hospitality group, company or chain right now in Malaysia?

Benny Wee (: 48:13

Citizen

Justin Sun (: 48:14

Great. And my final question to you is, given all this automation and how fast everything is moving, Do you ever worry that hospitality could lose something important, the service, the hospitality element, as it automates more?

Benny Wee (: 48:29

So again, as I mentioned earlier on,

All the while budget hotel segment, you don't expect to get a very good service. You get a mediocre service. That doesn't affect if you go into automation, right? It makes it much better. But again, our kiosk in terms of automation for four, five star serve a different objective. It allows more personalized. So technology always is not to, depending on which segment is not to replace human. The objective is actually enhance the service experience provided by the

by giving them more time to be able to do what they're supposed to do rather than the traditional take your passport, scan your passport, you know, this very routine job which should not be done by human, it should be automated. automation for budget, definitely you will see some of it leaving but in a good way because automation will benefit and overwhelm the budget hotel's traditional service.

For 5 Star, makes your front desk that's free, gives them a better opportunity to serve your client more. I don't think it is to replace, but it's to enhance.

Justin Sun (: 49:35

Fabulous. Now, what are you most excited about for vendfun in the next coming years?

Benny Wee (: 49:41

I think the most exciting thing for us is that I be able to see the...

wave for automation because in Malaysia or in ASEAN it's actually a very very early stage. This is like in Malaysia I would say less than even 5 % of the hotels are automated so we have a lot of room to grow and we are here to really help a lot of our businesses to really thrive and survive in this current environment right. Everything is not good right, war is here, is there, cost is increasing. How can a business thrive with this?

We are excited to able to offer our solution to help all the hoteliers on Automate provide better experience for their guests.

Justin Sun (: 50:20

And where can our followers or listeners follow you on this journey?

Benny Wee (: 50:24

Hopefully you can follow us on Facebook, the traditional old man, right? You can just go to Facebook slash Vendfun. You can see a lot of our story, a lot of our installation, implementation, milestone, et cetera, et cetera.

Justin Sun (: 50:38

Fantastic, so I'll drop that link in the show note below. But Benny, this was such a fascinating conversation because it really shows that the future of hospitality isn't just shaped by the hotel themselves, but by the systems, the infrastructure, the technology that is quietly operating behind the scenes. And I think that's what makes this most interesting is that we're still only at the very beginning in this shift.

So thank you so much

Benny Wee (: 51:05

Yes.

Justin Sun (: 51:05

for joining me on the Curious Concierge today.

Benny Wee (: 51:08

Thank you, Justin. Honored to be able to speak to you. Hope we can have another session again.

Justin Sun (: 51:12

Absolutely, can't wait. Thanks, Benny

Benny Wee (: 51:14

Thank you. Bye bye.