Why Culture Can’t Be Delegated in Bali Hospitality with Adhiguna | EP 4

Justin Sun (: 00:05

Welcome to the Curious Concierge. I'm Justin Sun and this is a podcast about the dreamers, shapers, and innovators redefining hospitality across Asia. Each episode goes behind the scenes of the hotels and villas to restaurants and cultural spaces where we explore the places where we stay, gather, and experience, and the people who bring them to life. These are the stories behind the stays. Let's get curious.

Justin Sun (: 00:33

Today we're heading to one of my favorite places in the world, Bali, where hospitality is less an industry and

more of a way of life.

Our guest is someone who's lived every side of that world, from villas and boutique hotels to corporate leadership and brand storytelling.

Adhiguna is the CEO of the Kayon Hotels and Resorts, and until recently, COO of Nakula Villas, which manages more than 70 properties and estates across Bali. He's also had stints at Elite Havens and the Lux Nomad. So if you've ever stayed in a villa in Asia, There's a good chance he's had a hand in shaping that experience.

He's built a career at the intersection of operations, culture, and creativity, blending discipline and heart, systems and soul.

thank you for joining me and welcome to the Curious Concierge.

Adhiguna (: 01:22

Thank you so much, Justin. It's pleasure for me to join in this podcast.

Justin Sun (: 01:25

Well, I'm really excited to chat with you. I read an article about you recently and it mentioned that you grew up in Klungkang, if that's how I say it. you mentioned, you grew up in an area with, rice fields, temples, everything that makes Bali, Bali. So when you look back now, what parts of that upbringing

Adhiguna (: 01:33

Yeah, cool cool.

Yeah, exactly.

Justin Sun (: 01:44

still guides the way you think about hospitality.

Adhiguna (: 01:48

hospitality in a way, should have...

distinctive differentiations depending on where you are. If you are in Bali, you have to bring all of the warmth, service, the culture and traditions in Bali. Not trying to make another Ibiza in Bali, not another tulum style of services in Bali, but you have to bring all of the uniqueness of the destinations.

if you travel halfway around the world and you're traveling to Bali, what do you expect to get? Would you expect to get another modern minimalist hotels? Or a true Balinese experience with all the traditions, the richness of the culture, the villagers who comes to the rice field in the morning, and that kind of sustainable, things

Justin Sun (: 02:30

I think it's great that you're surrounded by the environments that is so unique to Bali and it gives you a strong sense of what you want to serve to folks that are visiting Bali. your background has been in a bunch of different areas before leading up to becoming COO and CEO, from guest relations to, running brands.

Adhiguna (: 02:41

Yeah,

yeah.

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 02:52

and literally seen hospitality from the ground up. I'm curious if you can share with us, from those early hands-on days to now, how did your hospitality journey begin and how did it teach you about empathy, service, and leadership since you are holding that title for a while now?

Adhiguna (: 03:11

Alright, well I start my career in a very basic position and honestly you might find this quite surprising but my first official career is a teacher. I spent almost a year in Singapore.

working in Raffles and being in their food and beverage team. And I realized that things that everyone taught me in Bali about quality of service, the warmth, the service and everything doesn't really work in Singapore. The best service is a quick service. If you can be quick and be efficient, that means you're doing a good service. But it's a very different thing with Bali, things that are more laid back,

So when I come back from

my old school, they are reaching out to me and asking me whether I'm interested to teach and become an F&B service instructor, teach English as well for hospitality

Then I found my way somehow after I became a teacher for about three and a half years. A very good friend invited me to come and work in Denpasar as a customer service in the telecommunications company. I found it quite fascinating because, it

taught me how to be patient and meet with so much

people learning what lots of character, how to turn complaints into compliments. Because, if you come to a customer service of your telecommunications, that means you're having problems. You're not asking for information. You're having problems. That's why you come to customer service. And that's how I met with lot of customers as well. And one of them has a close relationship with Aman

at is back then, somewhere in: 2008

You are an idiot because Aman is there. It's their own standard of hospitality and you reject them twice One is as a restaurant manager and the other is a supervisor. unfortunately it's not my passion at that time they offered a restaurant manager in

Amanwana in Moyo Island, it's pretty far so I'm not that interested. the other one is Aman Dari Ubud He asked me to fill in a housekeeping supervisor position but it's not my passion, it's not my background, I'm not a housekeeper. I'm an F&B person

Justin Sun (: 05:35

You

Adhiguna (: 05:35

But that person is not giving up that easily. she contacted another of her friends in Villa Kubu at that time. there I go. I start my career as a guest relations manager. Then keep moving forward as a spa manager as well, guest relations then sales and marketing, then operations. It takes me

two, three years to climb that ladder. I learned a lot of interesting things in each department. I think that gives me a sense of hospitality in a very basic,

form from different operations, from guest relations which you're connecting with guests then goes to spa, which you don't talk much in spa, then sales and marketing and operations. It gave me lots of modality for me to step up my career.

Justin Sun (: 06:19

Wow, okay.

I have so many questions. You must have left such an impression on this person at

What was your role at the telecom business? Was it in person? Was it on the phone? how did they...

receive you as a strong candidate to be part of their properties.

Adhiguna (: 06:35

Thank

it's because of the way I do service. at that time, I am the team leader of customer service and there are a lot of difficult cases She came into the office with different gadgets and different problems in which takes quite a while.

to be solved. most of the customer service has a different approach because everything is time, everything is KPI'd. your average interactions is also calculated by the time you're receiving guests, your time is recalculated. It's going to affect your KPI. But deep down, I always feel that screw this.

come for us for help. just because you take some time to help someone doesn't mean that you are doing a bad job. So I intentionally drop my KPI.

They need help. we are the expert to help them. it took me about...

One and a half hour more or less and that's well if you compare and the customer service KPI is awful Because for one customer is going to take you about 20 minutes max well judging on that because I'm patient enough I

guide her through all of the problems, explaining clearly what is happening,

because the genuine wants to help, genuine feel that you just love to help someone, I think that's what moves her.

Justin Sun (: 07:59

Wow, okay, sometimes you just gotta go outside the handbook and break some rules. I mean, you didn't break any rules, but I think it showed, right? if a customer comes in and they walk away without their issues being solved, it's gonna become a negative review, it's gonna become something bigger, and it doesn't matter how long it took, And the KPI will get all erased with

Adhiguna (: 08:12

No, that's all. Yeah. Exactly.

Justin Sun (: 08:21

one negative response. very interesting. what gave you the confidence to, jump back out into F&B because it sounded like you did F&B a little bit, you're a teacher, you went to telecom, that was a very interesting role, you grew already into a team leader. What made you, decide, okay, I'll take this new role?

Adhiguna (: 08:38

Well, because it's my route, I really love the hospitality industry because, genuinely I just love to help someone. I just love to put smiles on others because I was inspired by, I heard it's a word like this, in a world where you can be anyone.

or anything, choose to be kind. that moves me I would tend to take the opportunities to make others smile and happy.

Justin Sun (: 09:06

I love that. at Aman, you had great early on, hands-on experiences. that level of property, the level of education at Aman, I'm sure was very high and a standard that many hotels would like to replicate. with that kind of mindset and experience, if you were to walk into a property today,

and saw a new staff member interacting with a guest, what are the small details that make you think, ⁓ yes, they got it. They got the hospitality and their blood. They know what they're doing.

Adhiguna (: 09:32

Good.

It's easy, first of all a smile. If you are sincere with your smile, people will feel it. I believe in what they call

like a frequency I can see if they are genuine or not their body gesture their intonation of speaking their smile everything will show everyone can feel it if you fake it people will always understand and I think that's a very important person as a frontliner everywhere in the world you need to be genuinely happy to assist if you are not happy to

This is quite difficult, but that's deep root in my mind in my soul is that to make your guests happy is not by a good SOPs and KPIs but how to make your team happy first because there's no way in the world that you can make your guests happy if your staff is unhappy. you need a good environment to make a good culture, corporate culture.

and everything will come into place.

Justin Sun (: 10:29

every time I visit Bali, even the simple gestures, A smile, an offering, a small good morning. you can kind of feel that heartfelt sincerity. And it's something cultural and spiritual too, that is very unique to Indonesia, especially Bali.

Adhiguna (: 10:40

Correct.

Exactly.

Justin Sun (: 10:46

in this article as you've also mentioned that, hospitality is connection and not service. I love that phrase. And in your words, you know, what does connection look like in the Balinese context?

Adhiguna (: 10:59

Well, connection is not just service. Service is something that you just do But connection is trying to make two entities connected. Connection is not just about having lots of good networks, to be connected, to be spiritually connected, to be physically connected,

there's a take and give, that mutual respect that, transcend beyond physical things, beyond,

routines of service or SOPs You need to be genuinely happy. think from their point of view You need to be respectful.

If you have that bond and have the connections, it's unbreakable It's a lot deeper than that.

Justin Sun (: 11:34

Very true, And from those early roots, you went on to be part of this ecosystem that professionalized Bali's villas and short-term rentals. I would love to dig into that journey You've had front row seats to the rise of the professional villa management in Asia. Maybe you can take us back a little bit, when you first joined Elite Havens.

What did the villa scene look like back then?

Adhiguna (: 11:58

Well, Elite Heavens actually has a very good standard. They are very luxurious. aimed to be on the upper scale It's very different with just a villa or just a house with a maid. They are providing lots of services in which that very much align with what I love. I really love personal connections. I really love...

the way we treat our guests, to provide the best service, to provide a best experience. It's not just about your staying in a fancy place What I loved the most when I was a Villa Manager at Elite Havens I had the opportunity to meet with a lot of people,

regardless what their social status is, I learned a lot from them actually. It's also what shapes me today. I met high officials of MasterCard. Microsoft and lots of important leaders in industry in the world. And I

learn from them the way they see do things, the way they interact with people. You you will not believe how humble they are when they meet with us, you know, such a low life kind of peasants preparing their meal every day, cleaning their beds or whatever, and interacting with them basic human to human way. Meanwhile, they are very, high end.

management team they are very humble and I can see the different side of them as a human, person, father, husband and as a son and that gives me a lot of opportunities and I love that so much and I can learn a lot and that shapes me until today.

Justin Sun (: 13:27

Wow, the exposure at Elite Havens sounds like an incredible time. since you had so much interactions, it sounds like you weren't just doing your normal villa stays. It sounded like you were doing more of these corporate events, retreats at these villas if you're meeting with multiple C-suite executives. I suppose,

Retreats today are extremely popular, but back then, I'm sure even though you have beautiful properties in your portfolio, there wasn't a lot of structure and systems in place. when you're dealing with perhaps high-end clientele plus executive teams coming in to using the property and you have to provide almost perfect...

stays, what the biggest learnings at Elite Havens, especially about being consistent and creating an industry that wasn't as developed as today?

Adhiguna (: 14:21

I learned a lot how to create a proper system of consistently providing the best service.

consistently providing the same standard towards all of our guests, regardless of challenges I learned a lot about structuring the team, to utilize what's best of them. Every person has a different character, they have different strengths, they have also different weaknesses. It allows me to see through them and utilize their skill set, utilize even their weaknesses.

in order to achieve the goals,

not just an extra mile but 10 extra miles There's a lot of things that are virtually impossible but we are trying our best to make it possible. Our property back then was not suitable to host a 50 persons initial gathering,

And with only five team members, we managed to pull through and exceed expectations. That's something that I learned, to always give your extra mile, to always give your extra service.

Justin Sun (: 15:23

Amazing, I'm sure Elite Havens was a good stomping ground to learn about this space. And then you had Lux Nomad afterwards, which is a very similar company, perhaps a little bit more digital native player, how was your experience there like?

Adhiguna (: 15:29

Correct, yes.

I entering the company in: 2019

And I found there's a lot of things back then that not being standardized enough. Yes, virtually it looks nice, but operationally there's a lot of things to be improved at that time. There are structures that are absence, are culture which is not there. And I found it there's very challenging times at that time.

to shape the company culture, the team, to shape structures, to shape lot of processes and creating new standards. my time there was very interesting because there's a lot of room for me to be creative, to work with a lot of different teams both local and international. It allows me to see different perspective,

from different country, and how to interchange in between because the corporate office is not in Indonesia. They are team in Manila, in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Australia Japan and also Thailand. It's very interesting and it's very challenging.

to shape the Lux Nomad in Bali into what it is now. But I'm very proud of my time there and I'm very thankful to the institutions, to the CEO, to my team member back then that we can pull through with everything. But that's a very nice experience.

Justin Sun (: 17:01

It sounded like you had a very localized,

Elite Havens and at Lux Nomad. You were more part of the corporate strategy growth and the global infrastructure, Because teams are around the world and it wasn't just you focusing on just Bali. It was on other destinations too, And then it went back into...

Adhiguna (: 17:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 17:23

more local, company, Nakula, but these villas are huge. Some of them I saw on a website could even have 250 plus people on property. So basically like a wedding venue how did you balance growth?

with preserving the culture of the Balinese and this intimacy with the high expectations from these guests. Would love to hear the group mix, and how your time at Nakula was like.

Adhiguna (: 17:51

although my time at Nakula is considerably short. about one and a half year. But one of the key points that my time at Nakula is first of all is about growth. When I joined Nakula, their property is about 42.

or 43 I don't know I can't remember but when I leave the property Nakula the amount of property is for standalone villas is close to 70 I almost doubled the growth in which is one of the

achievements that I can be proud of

There are lots of wheels that are working together and make it happen. But the key how to preserve the standards, the culture and everything is to be able to see what is the weakness of your current system. To be able to see where do want to scale up. Because at that moment, can simply say,

When I joined there's 12 members of accounting team for standalone villas. But when I leave for almost 70 villas, almost double the capacity, the team is still 12. that means they are being able to absorb more property without need to expand your team. That means the system that I changed, throughout one and half years,

working that one of the key factors as well and how to make sure that all of those properties are aligned is to have a proper system from corporate down to the units, to have a proper team as well. Those who understand and believe what is the value of Nakula the company and how to transcend it on how to

transcribe it and how to implement it in every unit. I think that is the key to understand where you are, where you want to be and what is the structures and you know all of the system and everything all of the resources that you need to move to achieve that goal and you need to understand that first.

Justin Sun (: 19:37

Wow, 12 people for 70 plus properties and these properties are huge. that's an amazing feat. Could you share with us one example of a system or something that you helped create at Nakula to create that consistency and standard that really helped shape what it is today?

Adhiguna (: 19:40

Yeah.

the biggest achievement and what I managed to change or set up the system in Nakula is that

Understanding what is each role is really working out to and understanding that workload, in each of the structures, the people and positions is interacting in between to reach the goal. sometimes you need to, when you run a very large company or an established company, sometimes

you might forget that your company is already growing, you're big enough and you're heading somewhere, you forgot to run an audit to your own team. You forgot to run an audit of your own system. There's a confidence that you feel that everything is fine, everything is good. Don't reinvent the wheel, don't fix things that aren't broken,

It's about evolving. It's about upscaling your operation. to upscale your business. And you cannot do the exact same thing if you want to upscale upscaling and adding more properties, developing your business doesn't mean that you have to develop your expenses you need to understand how

how you see from every wheels that are turning around and rolling the company that interact in between departments, structures, positions.

Justin Sun (: 21:11

Amazing. think delegation is the biggest theme here and understanding how to manage a team well and being adaptable. what do you think for the people outside of the industry, what do they misunderstand most about managing villas at this scale?

Adhiguna (: 21:29

it's very, common questions. There's a lot of people think that managing a village is like managing a house. And there's a lot of things that they don't consider when they purchasing one or build one or trying to operate one. operation wise, you have to understand that it depends on

what villa that you want to run, what property that you want to run and how you're going to run it. If you're going to have Airbnb type of rent in which you don't offer services, you're offering a house with a key box somewhere where your guest is able to access it, open the door and you leave that, you trust the guest 100%.

if we are talking about a professional management of having a villa in Bali, there's a lot of aspects. Even before you purchase it, before you build it, you must understand what type of businesses that you want to run.

The building permit model is different. The building permit itself must state that you're going to build a villa.

In the past is Pondok Wisata This is possible, but up to five bedrooms, but then after that if you're to have a villa Permit then you're going to rent it out and Everyone must take notes that an SRF for a rented property

you need to update it every three years and that's another cost that you need to understand.

Indonesian legislation is quite different especially if you are foreigners and come to Bali to invest You need to create a foreign investment company or what we call a PTPMA and

That is quite costly because you need to invest at least 10 billion rupiah, that's quite a lot of money, in the length of about three or six months you are not

Airbnb is not that simple because if your license is not actually for a rented accommodation, then you are basically you're illegal.

you will be forced in a very difficult situation because you only invest, but you cannot sell it, you cannot run it, and you're kind of in sticky situations.

Justin Sun (: 23:18

Yeah, that's very important to consider the local jurisdictions, especially for a booming city like Bali I'm sure Lombok as well. Lots of people are flocking in thinking that they can buy an investment home easily. But as you mentioned, there's so many parameters to consider, which is a great segue to the next topic that I want to cover.

you've had such a rare advantage point, watching how the villa economy matured while, still keeping that island soul, would love to zoom out and talk about the larger ecosystem.

that you're helping shape. if you had to paint a picture of Bali's short-term rental market today, how does it differ from 10 years ago? So aside from, let's say perhaps more jurisdictions, regulations, permits, how has the scene evolved since you started?

Adhiguna (: 24:08

the legislation itself does not change much compared to the past 10 years. the government offices is now more synchronized. in the past, if you go to a licensing office, it's not connected with the tax office. It's not connected with the bank.

even the tax office can open your bank accounts. It's not that simple anymore. in the licensing office or in reportings, they are also connected between tax of your employees and

your tax as an employer so that they do a cross-check

government offices, in which the regulation itself does not change much. previous way they called it IMB, now PBG, The difference is that they are more synchronized now. all of the investors,

have lots of work around, now it cannot work around because everything is

Justin Sun (: 24:55

no more

loopholes, no more gray area, as very defined, a lot clearer.

Adhiguna (: 24:58

Yeah, it becomes smaller and smaller. Exactly,

we also founded a BVRMA or Bali Villa Rental Management Association,

founded for Villa management, what we do is make it accessible for those who seek information, and

room for them to interact with each other because in the past villa owners don't know what to do or to ask for information or regulation but now they are able to learn about things ask about things and

In fact, last week we held a seminar with the Tourist Office, Licensing Office in Bali about what is the license that is actually required to run a villa. So I think it's very useful for lots of members

Justin Sun (: 25:40

these sort of organizations to bring the local community investors together, is extremely important. I'll actually have Kadek on the podcast I think he'll shed more light on his time as the president

Adhiguna (: 25:45

Correct.

yeah.

Justin Sun (: 25:52

of the foundation The regulations and permits hasn't changed too much, but it's really about...

decreasing any loopholes and having those margins be a lot more clear, then let's talk about the travelers now. how are you seeing it today? Are you seeing more or still a lot of digital nomads? Or more families You know, these nomads become residents, then become...

Adhiguna (: 26:01

Yes. Correct.

Justin Sun (: 26:15

families that are staying longer term, or is it, focused more on groups, wellness travelers, how has that changed in the last 10 years that you've been a part of this industry?

Adhiguna (: 26:25

before pandemic,

They booked way earlier, like six months, four months, in advance. But nowadays

their booking windows come much closer because of the development of lots of OTAs now they feel it's safer to book closer to the date and there's a lot of properties in Bali not like 15 years ago in which there's not much of options

investors

They bought a lot of lands and started investing in villas, hotels, resorts,

a shift in guest behavior because they understand now that the room much more compared to the travelers. by having visibility on OTAs, they understand there's many options. It's easy just look through their fingertips,

re they book. But remember in: 2023

in Christmas or New Year, And it also affects their perceptions about Bali.

the amount of new property is increasing because that's where the investment comes. And I see more and more people try to find or rediscover the other destinations in Jimbaran or in further east, like Karangasam.

the Kayon we are also investing there we are building another resort in Karangasam we see a lot of potentials in East Bali people get bored about Seminyak and Canggu the sense of adventure is missing

you're traveling halfway around the world and you just see another beach and another beach club destinations doesn't feel special anymore. That is why other places in Bali get rediscovered and

their occupancy and their demand is increasing like in Sanur, a small area but very laid back, very slow, suitable for senior citizens. Lots of people from Europe came there, or like Jimbaran.

Ritz-Carlton and all of those Four Seasons hotels are there,

I believe that's what guests actually wants to see Things that they don't see every day. a different culture, a different way of life.

Justin Sun (: 28:37

that's interesting because booking windows used to be six months, three months, and obviously supply was low. And then there was a big boom.

Adhiguna (: 28:40

Yeah, in

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 28:44

And now everyone's going to different markets Everyone's getting tired of the over-tourism Changu, where the beach clubs are. now they're going up east or more south, as you mentioned. And now it's going back to what travelers were going to Bali for, 10 years ago, which was to find something unique to the island. this full circle moment.

there's perhaps over supply in certain markets. And now people are looking outside of those areas. And it's not investors, It's the guests that are also looking to go to these locations, now there's so much eyes on Bali, especially on the real estate and development scene,

you hinted at these big opportunities, bringing back into the island culture, spirituality, nature. What are the biggest pain points for owners and operators in these, bigger opportunity markets? let's say East Ubud, what are some of these issues that

Yes, it's an opportunity, but what are some cons that come with it?

Adhiguna (: 29:41

As long as there's always a demand if you are going to build luxury villa if you're going to build a one two bedroom villas There's already over supply of it because there's a lot of one or two or three bedroom villas in Bali and especially in Ubud in which most

property is actually a complex of villas or small resorts or boutique hotels or luxury villas built for honeymoons.

Most investors think, you know, let's build a honeymoon villa in Bali, let's build a small villa in Ubud. that doesn't really work because you're going to compete with all of the establishments that are already there. There's a lot of hotels

then it's a suicide.

You have to understand where you want to invest and what type of property that you want to invest. You must have a very strong local knowledge.

if you want to invest in Ubud then by all means don't invest another one, two, three bedrooms you need to have a significantly larger villa because there's not much of it in Ubud but if you want to go with the small investments then go east perhaps or west somewhere in Sidaman

Justin Sun (: 30:41

you build and they come. But a lot more data, a lot more research is necessary, especially in today's market, I think this regulation and community aspect, Bali has faced real tension between, tourism growth and local sustainability. So how do you...

Adhiguna (: 30:43

Yeah. ⁓

Thank

Justin Sun (: 30:58

personally navigate the balance between the progress and preservation.

Adhiguna (: 31:04

I think the main key is concentrations of investments. The main problem Bali faces now is that it's over-concentrated. It's not over-tourism because if you compare Bali versus Singapore, instance, there's so much land in Bali, there's so much places that you haven't heard of.

There's lots of potential out there, particularly northeast of Bali main problem is over-concentrated of tourism. They are concentrated in Canggu and Peranan because

there's lots of demand there. there's a lot of investments there as well. But I think as investors, you have to understand that there's a lot of other places in Bali.

we need to finding balance between investments and preservation of culture to not build another Ibiza style of property, not to build another Tulum property, but come back to the roots.

And I'm proud to say that the Kayon is being recognized for preserving that culture and traditions we have even our, check-in experience all about Balinese traditions. And our F&B programs, is all Balinese

if you want to investment in Bali and how to balance it, you just need to come back to the roots because I think hospitality in Bali is moving

into a more sustainable type of properties and businesses instead of touristy kind of properties and business.

Justin Sun (: 32:21

that's a perfect segue into talking about the Kayon. Kayon, if I'm not wrong, means tree of life, right? In Balinese tradition. I can also see that in the logo. And you mentioned it's not just a resort, It's a spiritual place and how it blends culture, nature, calmness. what drew you personally to the brand? How did you get back into

Adhiguna (: 32:28

Correct.

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 32:44

moving from short term rentals out to a property such as the Kayon

Adhiguna (: 32:49

it's not too much different when I was in Nakula. Nakula also managed several resorts as well and complexes of villas. Meanwhile, the Kayon, although it's a resort, it's also...

consists of villas and two of our latest properties, Kayon Valley Resorts and the Kayon Ganga Resort, which is still in construction to be launched next year, are also a complexes of villa. every villa is individual one bedroom villas. Some of them has two stories, some of them is only one story, So...

It's not that too much different. It's just the way it's perceived is still more into resorts.

The most different thing is that now I have an outlet. I have several outlets. Now I have restaurants. I have a spa It is actually a good facility to pamper our guests and providing us a lot more coverage and services. that's a challenge and that's a fun thing.

Justin Sun (: 33:38

you have more resources, everything is more centralized, and you have more services, that's really exciting. Clearly, it's doing well. You have two or three properties, in the pipeline, which is fantastic news for the brand and company. Currently, what is your guest mix,

Adhiguna (: 33:39

Yeah.

Justin Sun (: 33:52

Is it more honeymooners, wellness travelers, wedding groups? I see that you guys are offering retreats as well as a focus on weddings. Is that a push now that you're seeing in today's market or has that always been there in this area of Ubud?

Adhiguna (: 34:09

Ubud is very famous for honeymoon, weddings, retreats. Because all of those trees are very suitable for

with the surroundings. There's lots of large trees, there's lots of valleys, a lot of rivers, a lot of things that support that kind of ambience.

if you go to Ubud, you are more conscious about your health, your well-being, your connections, nature, because that's what Ubud is and that's what the Kayon has to offer.

I don't actually have to push much into the new segments, but it's just a creativity of how we're going to position ourselves. Although we're already number one in Ubud, and TripAdvisor We are very well known

need to understand how to evolve further, how to become a larger property management company they hired me to set up the corporate team, the corporate standards, and to run a...

a different identity of the Kayon It's not just hotels, but it's now become a a hotel management company

Justin Sun (: 35:13

the Kayon is really evolving into a real estate arm and then a management arm and really growing its portfolio. And you're the perfect person to handle all of that. with the guest mix, is there one particular guest mix that stands out at the Kayon now? And are you using that information and...

and data to influence the other properties. for example, is it heavy on perhaps wedding? If so, then obviously you might want to have a larger F&B or larger spaces that you can hold the wedding ceremony itself and walking down the aisle.

Adhiguna (: 35:47

most of our clients are honeymooners. we are quite popular for new couples. And for consequence of that, we also receive lots of wedding inquiries, more intimate weddings, somewhere between 30 to 50 max.

we are trying to push more into that kind of segments Try to make it more, what's it like all rounder package kind of things. having your wedding here, then you spend your honeymoon here. we are trying

to curate their itinerary and travel to Bali. We are going to launch our new departments of Concierge Department in which they will act as our guest personal assistants

in tailoring their experience in Bali right after they booked the property try to make our guests no longer need

to research where to go, what to do, and leave the rest to our team.

Justin Sun (: 36:37

that sounds great. in terms of this level of service, you guys are pushing the envelope and creating an ecosystem for weddings and honeymoon and everything in between. And so I have to ask, what are some rituals or design details that really define the Kayon

Adhiguna (: 36:55

the check-in experience is quite different when they arrive

on the property we give them a a Balinese blessing, we call a tirtha when they arrive, we ask whether you are going to accept this welcoming rituals. we go into a temple, to do a small tirtha. So there's holy water, that we sprinkle to our guests. There's also bija made from rice and it's wet with tirtha as well. So just put it inside in the middle of your eyebrows.

It's a common ritual in Bali, for guests who travel in the south property, they might not experience it But at the Kayon, that's the welcoming experience they're going to receive. And in the premises as well, we have Maluka ceremony or water cleansing that we can

arrange for the guests like morning walks to the villages. We have our dedicated team that guiding the guests to walk in the village, walk through the rice fields provided with information about what these locals do, this kind of agriculture, breathe in the morning, be calm, be one the nature. I think that is the type of experience that we can proud of.

of

that embodied all of the culture and traditions in Bali. Try to invite our guests to slow down a little bit. This is Bali. Try to understand how the Balinese way of life is a bit laid back, of course, if you compare to New York lifestyle.

it's worth to, like what people said, stop and smell the roses, you need to be present.

Justin Sun (: 38:28

Yeah. Amazing.

That sounds like a very cool ritual. you also mentioned that you are building a couple of new properties.

When you're evaluating these new projects, what are some non-negotiables?

Adhiguna (: 38:39

Building-wise or structure-wise, it must have a good view. It must be breathtaking. When you're actually entering the properties, when you're entering the lobby, you must have that kind of breathtaking ambience.

you enter our lobby at the Kayon jungle, you will see a very deep valley that's one of the breathtaking aspects. we don't want, just another resort.

that has no view boxed in, the view is something that you cannot just create. You need to find the perfect locations structures and design to emphasize it, to present it to our guests.

Justin Sun (: 39:16

That's very true. you've been a COO, a CEO, holding many positions as an executive, managing large teams. how do you keep everyone aligned to one culture and standard when things are moving very fast?

Adhiguna (: 39:17

Yeah.

I have to conduct the interview. If it's my team, I'm going to conduct the interview. I cannot do an online interview because I cannot see their gestures. I cannot see their small movements in their eyes or whatever. I need to personally see them in Wherever I work, that every team member must be passionate with their job.

they must have like our very early conversations. I mentioned that you have to be genuinely love to help others. You must be sincere to make others happy. And I think there's the same quality in how we are choosing our team.

in terms of the Kayon itself, how we are going to embody the same standards, same identity, the same experience through our guests is that we must have a very strong corporate culture. a very strong human resources team in which

constantly spreading that positivity, passions, those standards that we have. by having those elements, we will be able to maintain our culture.

Justin Sun (: 40:29

And that's very important. let's be honest, hospitality can be very intense. passion is a very important thing to ensure there's longevity and excitement as being part of the frontline service culture. And as you mentioned, as a GM, as a CEO, long hours, constant problem

what do you do personally to stay grounded and also inspired?

Adhiguna (: 40:53

I love what I'm doing. long hours, yes, I arrive home about 11 o'clock every single day and I already at the office around eight in the morning.

because I love it it like a hobby for me and time flies because you'll love what you do find a job that you love

no matter what it's in the Elite Havens, Lux Nomad, Nakula or the Kayon, I'm always passionate with my job. And that's perhaps the kind of energy that fuels me. I just love to see my team. I just love to see new people, new person, guests.

Justin Sun (: 41:25

I agree. I think that's so important. Your job takes up so much time of your day and it's basically your second life. For some, it's their first life. it's great advice. Well, let's just jump into something a little bit more fun. This is the rapid fire question round.

Most underrated neighborhood in Bali,

Adhiguna (: 41:44

Karangasam!

Justin Sun (: 41:44

A design or service trend, you'd like to retire tomorrow.

Adhiguna (: 41:49

Now if it's foreign design, it will not last forever because it's not unique to where you are.

Justin Sun (: 41:54

Yes, needs to be localized, right? A hidden gem you'd recommend to friends visiting Bali.

Adhiguna (: 41:56

Good luck.

Hmm.

Singaraja and Karangasem both of them.

Justin Sun (: 42:04

last question here. Favorite hotel or villa brand besides your own or the companies that you've worked at before?

Adhiguna (: 42:11

Manda pa, and Aman

Justin Sun (: 42:12

I love that. now I'm going to ask you the curious question. If the Kayon or Nakula had to reinvent themselves in another city, Let's say Tokyo or Delhi what elements would you keep exactly the same and what would you reinvent entirely?

Adhiguna (: 42:30

I if I have to go open an in another country, I would consider Thailand. It has a lot of similarities with Bali. What I would keep exactly the same is how we are going to preserve its culture. Because Thailand has a very rich of culture.

It's not exactly the same like Bali, but it's quite similar.

Justin Sun (: 42:49

That's fantastic. Okay. what's next for you? Are there any projects, I think you mentioned a couple of pipeline projects that you're working on with Akion or directions on the horizon that you're excited about?

Adhiguna (: 43:01

Yes, short term is developing and growing the companies because I already spoke with several investors that are going to build and use the Kayon brand. very interesting. And longer term is we are set to aim for IPO, but well, it's going to take a while, but it's there. So excited.

Justin Sun (: 43:17

Wow, that's amazing. Okay.

Well, I have a feeling that this next chapter is going to be a very big one then. Wow. Well, Adiguna, this has been such a thoughtful and inspiring conversation. you've really shown us how hospitality can evolve without losing its heart and soul. I'll link the Kayon's website and your details, your LinkedIn and the show notes. But before we wrap up,

Adhiguna (: 43:35

Yeah, exactly.

Justin Sun (: 43:42

Where can listeners connect with you or follow you if they had any additional questions?

Adhiguna (: 43:47

Well, they can reach out to me on my LinkedIn or reach out to me or follow my Instagram because I always share my activity in Instagram as well. So feel free to DM.

Justin Sun (: 43:58

Perfect, I'll add that to the show notes. Well, thank you so much, Adiguna, I had a great time with you and we'll chat soon.

Adhiguna (: 44:00

Awesome.

Thank you so much, Justin. It's a pleasure. Thank you.

Justin Sun (: 44:06

Thank you. Likewise.